To ask if anyone else on MN is not anti-trans?

[Lilieee]

I'm not interested in someone 'debunking the trans agenda' or how no one on here is like that, all I'm interested in is if any pro-trans Mumsnetters could pop up so I don't feel alone

Ah yknow what, fuck it

trans is a class issue, and the upset from the GC is about fear of losing the access to power that men have deigned to grant us. It reads exactly the same to me as the generation of men prior getting upset about women and queers. Tried and tested method, ‘you better let us stay in power, not these SCARY OTHERS’. Very lean in!

what gets my goat though is the use of vulnerable women - DV and rape victims, women in prison, everyone’s 12 year old daughter, as cloaks for what seems to me a bunch of relatively wealthy and powerful women having a tantrum about the idea of having to share a specific type of power that the class ‘women’ has gained.

if the patriarchy had consciousness it’d be fucking laughing. Tale as old as time, set the serfs against each other and watch them squabble for scraps, then they’ll never think to climb the tower….

The problem with describing anyone as a 'cis' woman is that you are saying, "this female conforms adequately to the gender stereotype assigned her 👍"

Feminists used to push back against those stereotypes, but now we seem to be acting like they say something meaningful about people.

Maybe there’s just a lot of sensible women in MN who can grasp reality.,

Can you define a woman?

A rape crisis group for transwomen. Which the man had the option of in the case of I Am Sarah, but he chose not to, he chose the women's group to the distress of survivors there.

There's a whole world of this bullshit out there. Just look at your "allies" on this thread. One of them absolutely against the idea of female only rape crisis centres. Many of them against female only sports.

So what? Presumably you don’t care that transwomen make it easier for any man to use those spaces, so why would it bother you if transmen had the same impact?

And I've been in a ladies toilet with a masturbating woman standing next to me and doing it as she washed her hands.

This was a cis woman.

It doesn't make it any different - whether the masturbator is trans or not, they should be removed and prosecuted, regardless of sex, gender or cis-ness.

You didn’t say men did you? You said trans women.
edit to say you couldn’t even bring yourself to use the correct term which is trans woman.
gross.

I'm a staunch feminist - I have been in a bathroom with an obviously trans woman and have never felt threatened.

You cannot be a feminist when you prioritise men’s feelings and wishes over women’s safety, dignity and rights.

There are a shit ton of such services for trans people. Some of them are dedicated services specifically for trans people (which I support). Others are "trans inclusive" services for the general, but mainly female, population.

But if you're a female rape survivor and you want female only support, it appears you're shit out of luck these days. "Women only" services will tell you they can't help you and suggest you look elsewhere for other, non existent, female only services.

If you're silly enough to ask the (TW run) Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre whether your they/them counsellor is female, you'll be told by that the service isn't suitable for you. If a member of staff is then silly enough to speak up and says that's not right, she'll be fired and have to take her employer to an employment tribunal. She'll win, but the TW CEO will still remain in post, still denying female rape survivors the support they need.

The poor vulnerable trans people aren't the ones whose needs aren't being met at the moment. The female rape survivors are. But I'm sure their cisgender privilege will help them to cope.

A genuine question for those who are gender critical. If you were using a bathroom and a 6 ft tall, breaded stocky male dressed person came in, what would you assume?

because that person could be a trans man using the female toilets as, by your own definition, they should do. They were female at birth. Maybe they have had bottom surgery and maybe they haven’t, but by your argument you are 100 % happy for this person to share your space and that of your unaccompanied daughters?

Maybe look at college sport in the USA. Or indeed any country where they are so enlightened they allow men to self ID as women and enter sports competitions.
In the USA, many college students are there under scholarships, but part of the money is awarded based on their sporting performance whilst at college. So, the better they are, the better the scholarship. The financial incentive for males who aren’t elite athletes to claim to be female and end up winning all the female events is enormous. Look at Lia Thomas. A fully intact male, not taken hormones, has a girlfriend, mediocre swimmer in the male category now smashing the female category. He will have won a shit load of money as a result.
He’s taken full advantage of claiming to be female to the detriment to actual females in his sport. The same rings true for every single male claiming to be female in sports competitions. They are cheats!

Ugh well this thread has turned into the usual. It was quite uplifting last night.

Cant you all just go spew your poison elsewhere - as you do all over every thread about trans issues on AIBU and probably around 90% of any thread on the womens rights board - and leave this thread for those who want to share their support for trans people?

Not reading the full thread, because I'm assuming the transphobes are all over it making eye-poppingly horrible statements, so this is very late to the party and just responding to OP - yes, I'm a trans ally. Cis woman with a few trans friends and also a functioning sense of social justice. There's a lot of really disgusting stuff on MN.

And because I'm in the mood: yes to trans women in women's toilets, yes I would share a changing room with a trans woman, yes I would let my daughter share a changing room with a trans woman, prisons should be abolished but if they're going to exist, yes to trans women in the women's estate, yes to puberty blockers for teenagers if they want them.

That covers the main transphobe obsessions I think. :)

Says who? You. Ok.

That's just plainly silly. What does she want to get from such a group?

Stupid stupid behaviour.

Agreed.

I agree

I'm not anti trans, but pro women

I'm not cis, I am a woman

Men do not belong in women's spaces, no matter how they identify.

And why do we tell children there is something wrong with them, why can't they just be kids and enjoy all things.

Stop stereo typing, clothes, toys, games, hobbies!

Just support your kids without changing their sex

Gross as that is, and I'm sorry for you experiencing that, you were never at risk of rape from this woman.

Good for you. But many have seen a male in the ladies bathroom and HAVE felt threatened. Your passive acceptance of males invading our spaces does not cancel out other women and girls experiences or feelings.

This

He's getting off on it.

And that is great- we all have different reactions to a perceived threat. But what about a 12 year old girl or an 80 year old woman? Can you not understand why they might feel uncomfortable and threatened? We spend our entire lives as women, being told to trust our instincts, be wary of strangers, move ourselves out of a situation where we feel danger and in this instance we are being told ‘you are transphobic’ to feel that way. I have got off train carriages and out of lifts before because of a man giving me uncomfortable vibes. 99.9% sure they would not have hurt me but why should I take the risk? Women/girls should be able to enter a space where they are at their most vulnerable, free of that feeling of being on their guard.

I'm the pro-trans poster - the only thing I really feel about is trans women who have sexually offended should not be able to circulate around any prison - and there should be women-only rape clinics.

Rest of that I completely agree with you.

Maybe we should have a pro-trans discussion board

I'm anti-trans (ish) in children. I don't think children or teens should take ANY life altering medication since their brains aren't fully developed and they may realised they made a huge mistake.

Once someone's frontal lobe is fully developed if they want to swap gender I genuinely don't see why it's anyone's business. You do you so long as it doesn't impact anyone else (which changing gender doesn't imo)

I do think professional sports players and prisons are an issue but I don't know the answer to that.