To ask if anyone else on MN is not anti-trans?

[Lilieee]

I'm not interested in someone 'debunking the trans agenda' or how no one on here is like that, all I'm interested in is if any pro-trans Mumsnetters could pop up so I don't feel alone

I'm not in the UK. I can't remember the last time I've seen a single sex toilet. Or changing rooms (in a shop, the ones in gyms still tend to be single-sex). Hospital wards have been mixed gender for a while, although I believe most wards are being converted to single rooms anyway. Above all, it just doesn't seem to stir up anywhere near the same amount of debate as in the UK (or US).

I do think it's important to have nuanced debates about specific issues, be they sport or how to deliver services aimed at vulnerable women. However, I find the posters on here who object to others using the term cis- to describe themselves, and who like to shout that transwomen are men, incredibly offensive.

Except gay males didn't seek to enter female spaces. They didn't tell lesbians they are really transmen and should remove their breasts. Or advocate sterilisation. Or advocate the removal of rape crisis centres.

There is zero comparison.

Though I will say that poster who said we need women’s toilets so we can show each other our tampons was weird

What makes me angry is self proclaimed “cis” women deciding my boundaries for me. You want to be a pick me girl, bowing to men, that’s fine but don’t force it on others. Not very feminist!!!

I also believe that the risk to a trans woman not having access to women’s spaces puts them massively at risk. Do you genuinely believe that the only thing stopping a sexual predator assaulting someone is that they couldn’t possibly break the rules by entering a room with a symbol of a woman on the door. Or on the other side of the coin, that if a trans woman is forced to use a men’s loo the chances of them being abused/assaulted/subjected to transphobia isn’t much higher?

So women only toilets don’t help to keep sex offenders out because anyone can just walk in regardless of the sign yet supposedly it’s oh so important that transwomen are allowed into women’s toilets because they help to keep them safe from people who might assault them? How exactly does that work then when we’re told that men with bad intentions can just walk in anyway?

Or is it a numbers game? That the vast majority of people who commit violent and sexual assaults are male and that transwomen are less likely to encounter their fellow men in women’s toilets?

That makes sense only what do we think is going to happen to women when we allow more men into their spaces? They’re more likely to encounter violence and sexual assault but they’re only boring old women not the cool new and improved kind of “women” so who gives a shit about them?

Is that a fact. You think he's joking?

https://youtube.com/shorts/tCPd84nNjzg?si=hNv4AGSXyEeKa2t2

I’m very anti men forcing their way into women only spaces. Prisons, toilets, sports. I fundamentally don’t believe you can change biological gender and will never celebrate someone like Lia Thomas stealing something that a woman has worked her whole life for.

I don't know much about the issues to be honest, but I'm definitely not against.

I'm more like I wish everyone could be left alone to be able to do what they want and worship who they want, get married to whoever.

My niece is gay and is considering her chest (she identifies as a girl but hates anything feminine for herself) and I will be honest I don't want her to have the op.

Purely because the thought of her having that type of surgery is horrendous and I'm scared for her. She's my baby.

My sister works in a senior school and she said the education about it all is lacking. I only found some bits out myself recently and I'm 35. I should have read up about it.

I honestly just wish the world was a happier and safer space for all.

This. There is no purity test. No one is guarding the doors of single sex spaces checking people's genitals or gender recognition certificates before they're allowed in. Either you keep all males out or you let all males in.

who like to shout that transwomen are men, incredibly offensive.

Why do you find statements of basic fact 'incredibly offensive'?

Why on earth would you refer to yourself as a cis woman?! You are a woman. Only trans women need to clarify that they're a trans woman! This is what annoys me about the trans community. They want to give women a new table, "cis". This label is as offensive to me as the word "whore". Leave real women alone and leave our safe spaces alone. We have fought long and hard for them, they are not to be infiltrated with men. Anyone can identify as what ever they want, I don't have a problem with that. I worked for a fantastic guy called Sue. He dressed as a woman and was a nice person. But I don't agree with gender changing operations and hotmone treatment, nor stating that they are real women/men, when they are not biologically. Be honest and upfront and people will respect them more. If a third space needs to be made for trans people then so be it.

This is a logical fallacy. If the ONLY definition of being a woman is that you feel that you are a woman, what IS a woman? What do they FEEL they are? What is the defining characteristic that women and trans women have an affinity with? From a philosophical standpoint it is a non-statement. It's a lie.

So glad you posted this. I consider myself a trans ally. Have worked in the VAWG sector for years, specifically in support for people affected by sexual violence.
Ive felt horrified/depressed by the apparent prevalence on MN for anti-trans sentiment.
It’s good to hear from other trans allies on MN. Thanks for posting @Lilieee

@SoreAndTired1 Eh? No one is called non- anything. Cis women and trans women, straight women and gay women, etc. Where are you getting "non-"?

I've been challenged in women's toilets. 6'2", jeans and rugby top wearing, not sylph-like. But it's only started happening in the last few years because prior to that there weren't really many times when men tried to use women's facilities. Now they seem to have carte blanche and if anyone dares to push back, the cries of 'transphobe' echo round the bog.

Same here.

I have trans friends and family members and they have the same beliefs.

I am anti trans I guess. I think the whole thing is regressive and stupid.

Then maybe you don’t know of anyone who’s worked in a place that is a target for armed robbers. I know people who’ve been held up and robbers have gone out to storerooms or held staff members in the staff room while the store is ransacked

@SoreAndTired1 Cis people have privilege, straight people have privilege, white people have privilege. This is really Feminism 101.

How can you not get it? Just how?? If you have indeed been reading the threads about trans issues, you will have had hundreds of intelligent women explain to you, in forensic detail, the problem with allowing male people into female spaces and with altering language to fit a fictional reality. The arguments are absolutely water-tight. Either you haven’t actually engaged or there’s something else at play here.

What are your thoughts on Mridul Wadhwa?

The only area I can see an argument for not allowing transpeople is in sports, if it can be proven that hormonal or biological differences give them an unfair advantage.

Surely you must be aware that it is a provable fact that the hormonal and biological differences between the sexes give male-born people a clear advantage over female-born people? Why else would sports be separated by sex in the first place?

There is no cis. A male has privilege. Whether in a suit and tie, or a dress. That, is Feminism 101.