To ask if anyone else on MN is not anti-trans?

[Lilieee]

I'm not interested in someone 'debunking the trans agenda' or how no one on here is like that, all I'm interested in is if any pro-trans Mumsnetters could pop up so I don't feel alone

Largely at the expense of women.

@ahagiraffe Do you think people suffer the discrimination of living as a trans person for some sort of advantage? Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

Because that's not what the men want. They WANT to.force their way into women's spaces. They want us uncomfortable.

3rd spaces isn't good enough for their fantasy / fetishism.

Transwomen are not women. 92% to 97% (according to medical data) of transwomen RETAIN their penis and testicles, @CelesteCunningham . If you have a cock and balls, you are not any kind of woman, and do not belong in womens sacred safe single sex spaces.

@TheKeatingFive Being trans is a protected characteristic.

Having a protected characteristic like being black or gay or trans doesn't entitle you to do whatever you like (e.g. a crime). It does protect your right not to be discriminated against, e.g. being asked to leave somewhere because a racist/homophobe/transphobe is uncomfortable.

I feel absolutely the same.

You see, the fact that you have to explain that you a 'cis' womann is so bloody ridiculous. People love a label don't they?
So no, not anti-trans, just don't want a penis in the room while I am changing, nor do I want to be labelled by someone who identifies as 'something'

I'm not anti trans, but I don't believe you can change sex, I don't think trans women or men should be recognised in law as their new chosen gender/sex. Therefore we should not be sending men to women prisons, allowing them to compete in sport as women, allowing them to masquerade secretly as women or girls in schools, hospitals, children's activities such as Brownies or Scouts etc.

I'm not too fussed about the safe space and toilets debate, because a public toilet isn't a safe space anyway in my view. There could be anyone in there at any time as they are unmonitored facilities- nobody is checking your sex as you enter are they?

But your specific proposals to make TW safe, put women and girls at risk of harm.

When you let some males in, you let all males in. That’s the issue. We’ve seen this play out most acutely in the move to mixed sex toilets and changing rooms ( euphemistically called ‘gender neutral). A FOI showed that nearly all sexual assaults in changing rooms, occurred in ‘gender neutral’ changing rooms. We are now seeing school girls harassed and attacked by boys in ‘gender neutral’ toilets in schools. These spaces have been increased to accommodate trans people. And it’s happened at the cost to women and girls.
It happens too when you like TW into single sex spaces. As we have seen with Karen White and Paul Hambrook.

So what are your proposals to keep women and girls safe, as well as TW?

I am a cis woman and trans ally 🙋‍♀️

Do you really believe it's possible to change sex even though it's scientifically impossible? - genuine question as I can't understand why anyone would think it is possible.

I’m on the fence.
People as individuals can do what they like, in terms of identifying themselves, i couldn’t care less although I can’t claim to understand it.
However, if trans rights impinge on hard fought for women’s rights and make women feel unsafe or trans women (ie intact men) compete in female sports and consistently win due to their different musculature, then I do care. It’s also the nature of the ‘movement’ I don’t like as it does pit trans against ‘cos’ (also hate that word). There is a lot to look in to as regards trans imho.

It doesn’t make me transphobic, my adult dd is non-binary, so I’m right in it and I support but I don’t particularly affirm further than I need to (I’m not encouraging of it, we live our lives like regular people and don’t discuss it much). If I was phobic they wouldn’t be allowed in the house and we’d have serious relationship issues (we are very close).

Really? Most butch women I know have at some point been challenged in women's toilets as not belonging there, as someone had mistaken them for a man.

I'm guessing you don't know many butch lesbians, nor any trans folk. Am I right?

How about you don’t appropriate the suffering of black women and use the much more apt comparison of Men.

Why are you using the skin colour of black women to leverage access into women only spaces?

So you're not going to give any actual examples, then? Shocking.

You are not a cis anything - you are a woman. Why do you insist on trying to make up new words and expect us to start using them too? I don’t want a MAN in a dress with a penis in a female changing room.

"We're not. We're interested in trans women's safety. Trans women are not men, you transphobe."

@DoorPath

Being that the majority of 'transwomen' haven't taken any hormones or had any surgery, what exactly makes them women? A dress? Makeup? What? What makes a man with a penis and testicles and all the hormones that make those organs function a woman?

That's a misinterpretation of law. 'Being trans' is not. Gender reassignment is.

Additionally, the Equality Act allows for provision of single sex spaces regardless of gender reassignment.

These ladies are totally within their rights to have a changing space away from this man.

But genuinely do you think it is ok for a 13 year old girl to be in a communal changing room (with no cubicles) getting changed and a large, 40 year old fully intact trans women could come in and start getting undressed next to her. Is she supposed to be ok with this and ‘be kind?’ How are we supposed to deal with this situations? How is transphobic to feel this isn’t acceptable?

I’m not anti or pro. I just live and live. If someone doesn’t feel happy in the body they were born with, happy for them to try and change it. I don’t feel threatened by trans people. I believe you can change gender, not sex.

I think the shouty types at both ends of the spectrum are scary and put people off with their militant behaviour. Sick of the way nearly every thread on here gets dragged into an argument about prisons and toilets. I’m certain a lot of members have stopped coming here due to this also.

I hate this cis woman shit. It’s woman- just woman. Born female. Trans woman- born male- yes- cis woman - no.

Unlike your femphobia and misogyny.

I know, you're transphobic, we get it, you don't need to keep shouting it.

The thing that gets me with the trans agenda is the hypocrisy and double standards.

EVERYTHING is so important to trans people, their pronouns, their rights, their identity. But when a non-trans person tries to claim those rights, their pronouns and declare sex/gender isn't an identity, they are transphobic.
I have no issues with someone declaring they are a trans man or trans women and living their life as such, I do have a problem with them telling me what I am, what I need to believe, how I need to refer to myself which is the polar opposite of what they expect for themselves.

I strongly disagree with gendering the world to the extent that those who feel they don’t fit into the binary feel they ‘must be the other sex’ and I think it’s super important that children especially are taught that you can be a boy in a skirt or a girl playing rugby or whatever and not have to worry you might be trans. I’m concerned about hormonal treatment etc.

But equally, I don’t believe that the vast majority of trans individuals have ‘decided’ to become trans to infringe on women’s rights or perve at them in changing rooms. And I have every respect for people as people.