To be upset with the schools punishment of 5 year old

[HelloWorld2577]

Evening all!

Just wanted a bit of advice, my 5 year old son’s behaviour is VERY challenging. He started a mainstream primary school in September as he is autistic, but high functioning and wasn’t diagnosed until end of year with ASD.

My concern is how my child’s school are managing his behaviour and whether the strategies are age/ASD appropriate.

Most days my son’s being taken out of his class, by the deputy head teacher. He’s spending 1-2 hours in his office at times, doing minimal interactive activities, and today my son told me he was taken into another class room and made to sit on a chair in the corner whilst other children were playing.

My concern is he is 5 years old! These strategies I would expect once in year 2/3 not in reception, and IMO excluding him from the class/activities etc doesn’t change his behaviour or stop him repeating it sadly.

Due to him talking and distracting others he isn’t even allowed carpet time with peers which he really wants to do. I just feel like they’re excluding him from everything and it’s really upsetting me as it’s not his fault! He doesn’t have a 1:1 yet as isn’t able to get EHCP until next year.

Just for reference the things he is doing are speaking when teacher is, opening the class door and going outside when it is learning time & generally being disruptive. I know it’s challenging but no violence etc.

AIBU to raise my concerns with the school? Do you think their strategies are age and ASD appropriate?

TIA x

Of course they don't have to spend it on a specific child pre EHCP. It's supposed to be funding towards meeting the needs of all SEND kids so could, for example, fund a TA to run intervention groups.

We barely had any senco hours. I taught reception and had 2 hours TA time a week. I was on my own the rest of the time except for parent helpers I roped in.

Just to add - the top slicing goes to fund some of the send input from the LA eg sensory team, dyslexia support etc

I wish I were in your county! Are you seriously receiving approx 14k for a child to have a 1:1 full time?

Unfortunately, the 6k ish max funding does not cover the costs of the TA (even with the 15 hours required by schools). Not by a long shot. Therefore, If it is not in the EHCP then schools are just not able to provide it.

It's a top up! So if you need a budget of 17500 to cover the required hours for a TA then the school will get 11500 and be expected to use one lot of the £6ks in the notional budget pot to top it up.

It isn’t limited to the LA I am in. Under section 42 of the Children and Families Act 2014 the LA is ultimately responsible for ensuring the SEP detailed, specified and quantified in F is provided. That includes funding it at an appropriate level. As I posted previously, EHCPs can be fully funded but LAs won’t do this unless forced. I have supported parents across the country to enforce their EHCP and get their DC’s EHCP fully funded.

For some EHCPs, £14k wouldn’t be enough to fund the 1:1 detailed, specified and quantified in F.

Agree, Reception classes usually do get TAs .... but ... all the Reception classes I've seen for the last decade have significant percentages of children with special educational needs and no extra support available beyond the existing staffing.

Just to add - the top slicing goes to fund some of the send input from the LA eg sensory team, dyslexia support etc

But in most areas there is essentially no LA SEN input at all. And if there is, it goes via an academy trust and never gets as far as any actual children.

It's all a "rob Peter to pay Paul" situation all round and parents haven't the slightest chance of getting the school to do much of anything at all [of course there are some great schools and teachers who do their best] without requesting an ECHNA and (as @BrumToTheRescue implies) using tribunals to enforce.

Do not ask me how I know this.

I'm pretty sure the Deputy will be getting in with all his work ...whilst this child is in his office !

Well, yes, evidently! But that's not very good is it?!

Many primary schools in my LA have had to make TAs redundant over the past two years- if there is no funding for a TA for a specific child, many primary schools now have a TA shared between two classes within the year group. There is unfortunately no guarantee of a TA in reception- I agree this used to be very much the norm.

It may also be the case that there is a TA who is currently unwell, or has had to move within the school to cover another TA or similar- or it may be that they are supporting another child who has even higher needs but no specific funding- or delivering small group intervention etc.

It's also very difficult to recruit TAs locally- the pay in retail or hospitality is better, with less stress. If a TA leaves mid year, it is often very hard to replace them. It's great you have never seen this, but unfortunately in some parts of the country this is happening a lot.

Which is, of course, all the more reason for OP to try and secure an EHCP with funding for an appropriate 1:1!

OP I'm in Ireland so a very different system and my son had an sna (special needs assistant) in his class with him so completely different set up but what I've discovered is that some schools are utterly awful at handling these situations. And then some schools are amazing. It doesn't matter what reports etc are there it's all down to the school, some schools really show willing to work with the child and the parents and others just do what your child's school are doing. They don't seem to be able to meet his needs at all.

@HelloWorld2577 I have been thinking of you both today. Please keep us all updated - we’re rooting for you.

And don't ask me my opinion on academies and how some of them deal with SEND kids!

Genuine question: so many LAs are in dire financial straits, what happens when the money is just not there despite what the law says? Do they ask for more from the government - how does it work?

@OolongTeaDrinker when faced with enforcement action, LAs find the money. It is never an actual barrier when parents pursue legal action. This is because LAs know it is not a lawful excuse for failure to comply with the law.

But where from - is it moved from other budgets like adult social care or rubbish collection or whatever? Say somewhere like Croydon council that went bankrupt, where would they find the money from for example? Are councils really so corrupt that they are hiding money; and if so why isn’t this a bigger scandal? Sorry for all the questions, I find it mind boggling that if the money is there somewhere and the law states what needs to happen, who exactly in the council structure is withholding the money and therefore breaking the law out in the open?

As an SEN parent, you need skin like a rhino, school will deny & lie to avoid doing an EHCP.

@OolongTeaDrinker often it doesn’t need to be moved from other budgets, but yes, I have known LAs do that or at least claim they have. Some LAs have received bail outs from the government - google Safety Valve LAs SEN. Safety valve agreements just encourage more unlawfulness.

It is out in the open in the SEN world. It is a scandal among the SEN community. LAs act unlawfully all the time, not just related to funding, but in many, many ways. Until there are serious repercussions, nothing will change. Parents know safety valve agreements encourage LAs to act unlawfully. It isn’t a scandal known by much of society as a whole because, frankly, many don’t care if it isn’t their children. Even though it affects all in society and everyone should be concerned.

As an aside, the general public would be aghast if they knew how much LAs waste on representation to defend indefensible cases against unrepresented parents at SENDIST appeals.

Wobble cushions are about £15 on Amazon. I got one for my ND 8 year old as teacher complained she was very figity in class, and has been really helpful

My own local authority was found to have been sitting on around 17 million specifically intended for SEN provision.

In the mean time, my daughter went the entirety of 2023 without a formal education of any kind.

If Labour is insisting on inclusivity in mainstream, then realistically, most if not all LAs require a lot more funding as does the general education budget anyway.

Yes OP, very distressing to read this post. Definitely check up on Ipsea and your local offer as to what can be put in place whilst the EHCNA assessment is underway and don't delay that any longer - your son has SEN, he can have an EHCP applied for.

I beg to differ as someone who was screamed at for not paying attention and called unteachable in primary school. My son (who takes after me) gets much more understanding from his teachers. And that's what it's about really, it's not all down to funding and resources in my opinion it largely comes down to individual schools/teachers and how much empathy they have.

Totally agree.

I feel so bad for you and your DS. As I said our EHCP was rejected which no-one could understand and we're going to mediation end of the month.
I would get the EHCP done yourself. It's not awfully easy but I think if it's done by a parent they require less evidence than if it's done by a school/nursery. Not entirely sure but think I have heard that.
Your school are using delay tactics just like my DS nursery did but do they really need these learning plans as obviously parents aren't going to do that.
It's such a long road and getting EHCP accepted is just the first step. I'd honestly ose the summer holidays to apply.

All schools are sadly not made equal, I would move him. This school is not equipped to meet his needs.

For example, in the area we are looking to move too. The “best” school, by almost every metric is known to be terrible for children with SEN. It’s focused predominantly on academic achievement, which is great for some children, but awful for others.

The school we have picked for my child with SEN is far more holistic in the way it manages children. They have more “average” sats results, but are wonderful for children with SEN. They have a forest school area, quiet rooms, a therapy office dog, chickens, ducks, and a vegetable garden. The children with SEN tend to spend time with the animals or in the forest school when they are struggling to regulate. They also aim to keep them with their peers where possible.

The school was recommended by local parents, I found them by looking at local SEN groups on Facebook.

I also used Locrating, I paid extra to gain access to all the data. The data backed up what the parents on Facebook said, the more holistic school scored highly for supporting children with SEN. The “outstanding” school however did not.

We toured the school they recommended and it was wonderful, and the children looked very happy.

I would consider moving him now, before he starts resenting school, and starts refusing to go.