To be upset with the schools punishment of 5 year old

[HelloWorld2577]

Evening all!

Just wanted a bit of advice, my 5 year old son’s behaviour is VERY challenging. He started a mainstream primary school in September as he is autistic, but high functioning and wasn’t diagnosed until end of year with ASD.

My concern is how my child’s school are managing his behaviour and whether the strategies are age/ASD appropriate.

Most days my son’s being taken out of his class, by the deputy head teacher. He’s spending 1-2 hours in his office at times, doing minimal interactive activities, and today my son told me he was taken into another class room and made to sit on a chair in the corner whilst other children were playing.

My concern is he is 5 years old! These strategies I would expect once in year 2/3 not in reception, and IMO excluding him from the class/activities etc doesn’t change his behaviour or stop him repeating it sadly.

Due to him talking and distracting others he isn’t even allowed carpet time with peers which he really wants to do. I just feel like they’re excluding him from everything and it’s really upsetting me as it’s not his fault! He doesn’t have a 1:1 yet as isn’t able to get EHCP until next year.

Just for reference the things he is doing are speaking when teacher is, opening the class door and going outside when it is learning time & generally being disruptive. I know it’s challenging but no violence etc.

AIBU to raise my concerns with the school? Do you think their strategies are age and ASD appropriate?

TIA x

If this is the way your local authority is operating, it is breaking the law. Nothing has changed in terms of the legal duty to ensure that support in EHCPs is properly specified and detailed and meets the child's needs. If the support the child needs costs more than £16K, then that is what must be set out in the EHCP and that is what they must have. If the LA won't put it into an EHCP, the tribunal will if the evidence shows it is necessary, and parents win over 90% of tribunal appeals.

Think about it - there are children in specialist schools with fees in the region of £30K a year or a lot more. How do you imagine that happens if no EHCP ever has more than £16K allocated to it?

Your DS sounds very much like mine, we are still waiting for the diagnosis pathway to complete so no EHCP either.

@TotallyKerplunked, you don't need a diagnosis to get an EHCP. To start the assessment process, all you need to show is that your child has or may have SEN, and that they may need help through an EHCP. I suggest you enter your own request for an EHC needs assessment as soon as possible.

Sounds awful OP and he’ll probably end up resenting school if they carry on. Are they making any attempts to try and understand him? Could he be bored or under stimulated?

If they don't have adequate funding then they are accepting that this child meets the criteria for an EHCP and should have applied long ago.

If the school needs more support in order to meet DS’s needs they should have requested an EHCNA rather than needlessly delay. There is no excuse for acting unlawfully and discriminating against DS.

Any LA acting like this is acting unlawfully. Parents should appeal to get a detailed, specified and quantified EHCP then enforce said EHCP. The LA is ultimately responsible for ensuring provision in EHCPs is provided. EHCPs can be fully funded but LAs won’t do that unless forced.

While it is not ideal for a reception child to be removed from class for such long periods, it sounds like he is disrupting the other children's learning almost all the time when he's there. They can't dedicate an adult solely to him all the time - that TA is for the whole class, not just him. They can't put your son ahead of all the others.

You need to apply for echp.

Can you arrange a meeting with his teacher and SENCO and raise your concerns? It's possible that you will all be able to come up with a plan of action and ways to help your son be included in activities like mat time/stories or at least working towards it. Are they using visual aids like social stories or wait/quiet cards to support him? Would fidget aids or sitting close to the teacher/TA so they can quietly remind him to listen help? The school should be willing to work with you towards more inclusion and letting you know what you can do to support this. Role playing classroom scenarios with his toys at home for instance?

I'd be fuming in your shoes OP. My DS might be starting school in September and he's a bit like your son with trying to escape from rooms (but my DS is non verbal and much younger in all development areas than his age).
So all the posters who have no fucking idea about having an autistic child are screaming what about my child's education what about OPs son's education?
How is sitting in a classroom watching children play or sitting in the head's office doing nothing helping his education? How is isolating him from his peers helping?
Is there any chance of him going part time which might help? My DS is going to be doing 2 hours a day, not ideal but it is what it is. Or if there is a free SLT member surely they can do work with him, rather than just making him sit there.
Tbh I think I'd look at moving school as this one sounds shit, with clueless staff.

And every child has the right to a non disrupted education.

I was a primary teacher for 20 years and spent about half of that time in reception. I have definitely dealt with a lot worse, but those thinks can be incredibly irritating for everyone in the classroom and a safe guarding risk to your child - leaving the classroom unattended.
What have the school already tried? Fidget toys, special cushion? I quite often gave children a toy to hold with particularly sensitive ears. That way you could say, just remember teddy's ears. That way you aren't always telling the child to stop talking. Also it sounds like carpet time needs to be built up, hopefully he is not sitting for extended periods.
Have you asked him why he leaves the classroom, does he know? Maybe he needs outside time to self regulate. He might benefit from a system to signal this to the teacher, rather than just leaving. A visual timetable would help, so he could see what he is expected to do before outside time.

I wouldn't trust the school. They are not in your son's corner. They don't understand the law on EHCPs and they do not seem to understand autism and how to handle it.

I would suggest you look at IPSEA or SOS:SEN.and upskill yourself on EHCP law and do a parental request for a Needs Assessment over the summer hols ready for the new term.

Or, look for a school that can meet your son's needs and move both of your children.

I spent years trying to get my children's school to meet their needs. A school that wasn't willing to listen and my children left that school so traumatised that, years later, they still will not go near the place.

If a school doesn't want to help, they are not going to, whatever you say/do.

SOS:SEN do great booklets for a fiver that explain the EHCP process/law and the appeals process.

A child opening the outside door and leaving, potentially putting himself in danger, while you teach and manage 30 others, isn’t challenging?

This. I’m a teacher and I’ve taught children who can’t access the support they need in mainstream. It’s utterly soul destroying for the child, teacher, parents and the rest of the class. Every child has the right to an education but I’ve been in situations where that one child is taking up 80% of my time and 30 others are suffering as a result - supporting one or two at the expense of many doesn’t sit right with me. It’s a broken system.

EHCP is needed and strategies need to be put in place to support your child - maybe he needs 1:1 support in class, timetabled outdoor breaks in his day, to attend on a part time basis, sensory breaks, visual timetable to help him see when it’s appropriate to be outside, etc.

I think from your OP you sound very entitled and are down playing your golden child’s behaviour. The other children should not be disrupted because your child wants carpet time. If he can’t behave then this is the consequence unfortunately.

Op have the teachers tried anything else like wobble cushions/fidget toys for carpet time, time out for a few mins in the classroom (my son's reception class had a "time out" square of carpet for children to sit on for a short time to calm down/as a punishment for bad behaviours.) or have they just gone straight to removing him from class?

What is wrong with you? Sen kids are allowed to exist you know.

This is not appropriate. Your child's needs aren't being met. Instead of being nurtured and supported to meet behavioural expectations, he's being punished for being unable to meet the required standard.

And yes, there may be 29 other children in the class and all of that, but your concern needs to be your son. You are his main advocate... That is your job as his parent. You need to kick up a huge fuss about how he is being treated and demand that better measures are put in place to support him and so he is not being discriminated against. I find it shocking that a reception child with SEN is being treated this way - I had hoped that we had moved past this.

I am by no means the first to shout "ableism" in most situations but I am shocked by the number of posts on here which are essentially ok with an SEN child being excluded in this way, because the school is unable/unwilling to provide them with proper support. We'd never tell a child with a physical disability just to stop moaning and climb the stairs, thankfully.

I fumed so much reading this thread that I had to rejoin Mumsnet. The school are badly letting your son down.

First your son is in foundation, this behaviour is not unusual at that age. Is there a class TA and if so why are they not supporting your son?

You say the school are trying “plan, do, review”, but what interventions are they actually trying? Removing him from class for hours is not an intervention. Interventions I would suggest are:

• providing a safe space for him to go when overwhelmed so that he does not need to go outside and practising with him going there
• TA with him in circle time, using fiddle toy or engaging him in another sensory activity so that he can still listen from outside the circle
• social story to explain taking turns when speaking

yes funding is very tight but if there is a TA they should be focussed on children with SEN. There are a lot of ignorant comments on this thread, the school can’t just shove a disabled child to one side, they must provide an education. Definitely start the EHCNA process yourself.

It's standard practice for 3 sets of plans before applying.
If it's still the same as a few years ago, you can ask the school to do a risk assessment. He is a flight risk and school cannot have children leaving the classroom and running off around the school grounds. He sounds quite a high need and school are managing the needs as best as they can. Our principal often has sen children in their office as its a calm quiet space they can unwind when overloaded.
You can apply for a ehcp yourself as a parent. Look up sen sos, sen jungle websites etc.

Your poor little one, this sounds so 1980s approach. Can I respectfully suggest you ask to pop this on SEN board because there are lots of experience and expertise on unlocking the system.

It doesn't sound like the school are very well set up to meet your son's needs. Our school uses a lot of techniques for all the children, so regular movement breaks, sensory room, chill zone colour card indicators to engage support, or break etc.

By providing this approach the overall behaviour has improved and all the children benefit from them.

He is definitely not a golden child. He is very challenging and I have accessed all parental support available for me through the children’s hospital who diagnosed him, the health visitor and school nurse so your comment is extremely rude and uneducated. I am hit, bitten etc most days. Luckily he doesn’t do any of this at school and his behaviours at school, which although I have recognised as distracting for his 4/5 year old peers, are ASD related behaviours such as wanting to talk and go outside as he doesn’t understand the structure of a school day.

If he doesn’t get carpet time it’s not the be all and end all but it’s more so the fact my child’s being removed from a class for up to 2 hours due to running outside? I wouldn’t say a 2 hour punishment is reasonable for a 5 year old but then again we do all parent differently. Removing him from the situation to reconfirm that his behaviour he is displaying is unacceptable is one thing, but to remove him for a significant time and make him miss out on many things children without ASD do is not ok in my opinion. It’s treating him unequally, which is not acceptable.

There are many comments similar to yours, which I don’t quite understand what I’ve said to offend many parents. I’m not saying my child’s more important than anyone else’s. I’m just asking for him to not be punished so harshly when all he’s doing is talking to his friends etc which in his head is innocent. As I’ve said he doesn’t understand like a child without ASD would.