To be upset with the schools punishment of 5 year old

[HelloWorld2577]

Evening all!

Just wanted a bit of advice, my 5 year old son’s behaviour is VERY challenging. He started a mainstream primary school in September as he is autistic, but high functioning and wasn’t diagnosed until end of year with ASD.

My concern is how my child’s school are managing his behaviour and whether the strategies are age/ASD appropriate.

Most days my son’s being taken out of his class, by the deputy head teacher. He’s spending 1-2 hours in his office at times, doing minimal interactive activities, and today my son told me he was taken into another class room and made to sit on a chair in the corner whilst other children were playing.

My concern is he is 5 years old! These strategies I would expect once in year 2/3 not in reception, and IMO excluding him from the class/activities etc doesn’t change his behaviour or stop him repeating it sadly.

Due to him talking and distracting others he isn’t even allowed carpet time with peers which he really wants to do. I just feel like they’re excluding him from everything and it’s really upsetting me as it’s not his fault! He doesn’t have a 1:1 yet as isn’t able to get EHCP until next year.

Just for reference the things he is doing are speaking when teacher is, opening the class door and going outside when it is learning time & generally being disruptive. I know it’s challenging but no violence etc.

AIBU to raise my concerns with the school? Do you think their strategies are age and ASD appropriate?

TIA x

@CoffeeNeededorWine you're absolutely right that legally the ratio is 1:30. However, as I said, I work across a county in Early Years classroooms, and all of the schools have a Reception TA, regardless of the current state of budgets.

Hi OP - just wanted to add to the other posters who are encouraging you to apply for the EHCP yourself.

I see you said you'd speak to the SENCO about it, you don't need to, and the advice they're giving you isn't quite right. Don't let them put you off!

You can apply for it yourself at any time. I'd advise joining a local SEND group on Facebook...they often have a lot of good advice, especially about how your local council SEND department works.

You and your little boy deserve much better than this.

That is not my experience at all. Great you are in well funded schools not in deficit budgets, with falling rolls, paying supply teachers to cover long term sick leave etc.

Yes the class have a main teacher and 2 TAs. One of which is a 1:1 due to a child with a physical disability. But the other works with all children.

Surely it's obvious? They are the professionals and they have a duty by law to use their best endeavours to meet OP's son's special educational needs. They are making little effort to do so and are discriminating against him by punishing him for his disability, which is unlawful.

So the solution is that they stop breaking the law and comply with their legal duties.

You can apply for the EHCP yourself. You don’t need school to do so. Have a look at IPSEA abs steak to an advisor if necessary. If they don’t supply until next year it could be 2 or 3 years until it’s actually in place. My son had his before he even started reception.

This sounds really cruel. I would take him out of school.

It is absolutely heartbreaking isn’t it. We (teachers) got in to teaching to do the best for our little people. We never expected to have to fight for what should be statutory. I completely get OP concerns for her little one. It’s awful that he isn’t being supported. Without the right funding how can the class teacher keep him safe, teach him provide a curriculum that he can access and meet the varying needs of the other 29 children? With the rising SEN needs in school, you know he won’t be the only child in that class needing additional support. Absolutely heart breaking.

With respect, you don’t know who needs extra support in that class warranting the second TA. I’ve seen classes with 50% SEN need, but without EHCPs.

Genuinely hope it’s resolved as sounds tough for everyone. Just making the point what people think is right and fair and should be happening in schools is not always the reality - due to budgets.

Of course schools are allowed to state the facts if they don't have the resources required to meet an individual child's needs. The main criterion for issuing an EHCP is that the child's needs cannot be met within the resources normally available in mainstream schools, so if schools were unable to say this then no child would get an EHCP.

That’s great to hear. Unfortunately that isn’t the case for all schools.

Have you seen your LA ordinarily available provision? This details everything the school should be doing to support your DS even before an EHCP. You will be surprised. Have a Google!

Apply for an EHCP yourself, we had to do and now my dd has 3 different diagnosed conditions. She was punished like a neurotypical child, when she clearly should not have been. School tried to put us off applying for an EHCP / diagnosis, I'll never understand why.

Do not let the SENDCO put you off applying for an EHCP. What they are telling you about having to wait is straight forwardly illegal, it may be what the council is telling them but it is still illegal.

what does the school SEN plan say for your child? What are they already supposed to be doing? And are they doing it?

if he has a diagnosis, and is on the school SEN register, they will already be getting ‘delegated SEN funding’ to support them in providing the plan they have written so you are 100% in the right to expect them to provide support for engagement in the classroom rather than just removing.

the EHCP process can be long and hard, I’m waiting for a tribunal right now after 18 months of fighting, but the process doesn’t get shorter by not starting it.

good luck, you’re doing a great job 💛🖤

Is he being placed with the deputy head, not as a punishment, but to minimise the flight risk?

absolutely this, it’s heartbreaking.

Request an EHCNA yourself. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use. You do not need 2 or 3 assess plan do review cycles. The only lawful threshold is a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need special educational provision to be made via an EHCP and is set out in section 36(8) of the Children and Families Act 2014.

In the meantime, request a meeting with the SENCO. Follow up the meeting (and any other verbal conversations) with an email so you have a paper trail as evidence.

This is a binary way of expressing it.

Legally and morally correct - yes.

Practical and reasonable in many state schools - not in my experience with current funding.

You can raise an EHCP without the school obviously the more evidence the better but it's not a must. I would consider moving both children

Why does your little boy need to sit still for so long to be noted as "well behaved"
He goes to school in part to play and make friends.
He must be so excited to sit and chat with friends and all the pent up energy must be so hard for him to hold in.
He deserves better. He deserves opportunities for meaningful interactions and lots and lots of fun.
Isolation and away from his piers?
What is the point of school, he could have a personal tutor at home if they're not going to let him enjoy his time there.
Deregister him and find a forest school where he can run, play and enjoy his friends company whilst learning similar to his current piers.

Hi OP, please come to the support thread where you can find posters with experience. It's no good waiting for school to solve this problem. You will need to solve it yourself.

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

This all sounds very stressful for all involved and especially for your little one and there probably is more that the school should be doing. I agree with the idea of social story and gently getting your DS to understand the classroom 'norms'.

However, even with an EHCP, the days of a dedicated 1:1 TA are behind us. Unless the needs are so severe that there would be danger to others or to the child themselves or if a child has severe medical or physical needs. Children are not allocated a 1:1 or a set number of 'hours'. There is high needs funding which means that even with the highest level of EHCP, you only normally get £16k in total; employing a TA costs on average (with employment costs) £26 - schools can't afford this.

Please don't pin all your hopes on an EHCP. The school will still need to adapt what they are doing to meet need.

I work in a school that has a TA in reception and there are still plenty of occasions when the teacher is alone in the class with the children. The TA might have different break times dues to working at lunch time or breakfast club, or they might be helping a child in the toilets, or they might be outside the classroom doing interventions or other jobs.

Your DS sounds very much like mine, we are still waiting for the diagnosis pathway to complete so no EHCP either.

DS3 coped well in reception as it was more free play and he had a very experienced teacher. But in year 1 with an NQT its been a crap show. Similar to yours he is removed from the classroom and "put in a cupboard" (literally, I have seen it) by the heads office with a bean bag and some fidget toys, for hours. I made a fuss over this so their other solution is a desk for him, outside the classroom, facing a wall and then into his cupboard if that doesn't work.

DS3 isn't a flight risk though, he struggles a lot with changes and needs reminders. He also stims with noises and hand flapping but is meeting targets eg reading/spelling etc.

Things I have done this year: I go along on school trips to aid as his unofficial 1:1. I attend everything and remove him if I can see he is on a downward spiral (sports day and Xmas play were very difficult). I also keep on top of the pupil passport meetings and meet with the SENCO regularly to discuss strategies.

To those of you saying "I don't want MY precious child's education disrupted by your naughty kid" he has lots of friends in the class, when I go on school trips its lovely to see how they interact and help him when they can see he's struggling so they are learning things like compassion and empathy.

That's great but unfortunately still not true for all schools. I have a TA from 9-12 only. (Reception class of 29).