To be upset with the schools punishment of 5 year old

[HelloWorld2577]

Evening all!

Just wanted a bit of advice, my 5 year old son’s behaviour is VERY challenging. He started a mainstream primary school in September as he is autistic, but high functioning and wasn’t diagnosed until end of year with ASD.

My concern is how my child’s school are managing his behaviour and whether the strategies are age/ASD appropriate.

Most days my son’s being taken out of his class, by the deputy head teacher. He’s spending 1-2 hours in his office at times, doing minimal interactive activities, and today my son told me he was taken into another class room and made to sit on a chair in the corner whilst other children were playing.

My concern is he is 5 years old! These strategies I would expect once in year 2/3 not in reception, and IMO excluding him from the class/activities etc doesn’t change his behaviour or stop him repeating it sadly.

Due to him talking and distracting others he isn’t even allowed carpet time with peers which he really wants to do. I just feel like they’re excluding him from everything and it’s really upsetting me as it’s not his fault! He doesn’t have a 1:1 yet as isn’t able to get EHCP until next year.

Just for reference the things he is doing are speaking when teacher is, opening the class door and going outside when it is learning time & generally being disruptive. I know it’s challenging but no violence etc.

AIBU to raise my concerns with the school? Do you think their strategies are age and ASD appropriate?

TIA x

Sadly no other measures have been taken. He doesn’t have any aids like others have mentioned. No wobble cushion etc. They’ve tried social stories which help, but other than that not much has been done to help him.

That's cruel and unacceptable treatment of an autistic 5 year old.

This is why so many parents of high functioning autistic children are choosing to home educate.

I have several sen children who went to an amazing primary. Some of the things you have mentioned are strategies for managing challenging behaviour.
Before they were statemented they often would spend some time with principal in their office doing quiet play or just chatting as they had done a runner or wouldn't stay put.
They had their own desk as needed space and it was at the back of the classroom so the teacher or TA could intercept if they tried to do a runner.
They couldn't do carpet time (rolling about/nudging other children/basciqlly annoying everyone on the carpet) so they would sit on a chair at edge of carpet or at a desk, this did progress to a big cushion then sitting on a spot with a huge amount if stickers as a reward.

OP I think a number of posters haven’t even read the OP properly as they have commented that your son does not have a diagnosis. There are also a couple claiming to be teachers who appear to have no clue about typical 5 year old behaviour or about the legal requirement not to discriminate against kids with SEN. I would take them with a pinch of salt.

Thank you! Yes the class has a teacher and 2 TAs. Sadly he doesn’t have a 1:1! Not much supports provided unfortunately. I’m going to request a meeting with the SENCO just to go over queries of what they’re doing as I didn’t realise how little they were doing before starting this thread!

Two TAs? What the hell are they doing all day while your DS is removed from class? I thought you might say there was no TA.

I think you need to have a conversation with the teacher, senco and deputy. You are seeing removal and exclusion, the school could see it that he is becoming o overhelmed and needs to regulate. Clear communication with school is very important at this and you will be able to explain how your son is feeling and decide on plan action your all happy with

As OP has already explained one of the TAs is a 1:1 for a physically disabled child. The other will be allocated to other children.

There isn't really two TAs though as one is soley there as a 1:1 for another child

I think requesting a meeting with the senco to discuss strategies is a good idea. The other thing I'd want to do is talk to the teacher your child will have from September (as there's only a couple weeks left of school before summer hols) in preparation for next year.

It sounds like the school could be better informed about how to support children with SEN so if your child has a speech therapist, paediatrician involved or any other professional like that, asking them to advise the school on strategies that might work for your son could also be a good idea. For example my son struggles to follow several instructions at once and a speech therapist once advised my child's teacher how to break instructions down for him and this was then put in his iep.

Is he being removed as a punishment? Or to keep him safe by making it impossible for him run outside? I ask as in my school our infant classrooms open onto the playground but our depute heads office and our sensory room are up two flights of stairs - children who are struggling to stay inside are often given time to work upstairs where they will be safe and can’t “escape” outdoors and harm themselves.

Eloping is a common ASD behaviour as you will know but it’s incredibly stressful for a class teacher to manage. Can the door to the outside simply be locked? We used to be allowed to do that which helped keep children in the classroom but then we got a complaint from the fire warden so it maybe depends on the school/health and safety rules.

It is disrupting them. The friends he is chatting to may want to listen to the story? And if he is doing that in all other learning situations in the classroom, then the friends are going to also have their learning impacted. If you have 30 children in a classroom, it’s not fair to expect 29 of them have to accommodate someone who is causing major disruption. Your child might only be talking to a couple of friends, but this does have a ripple effect on the rest of the class. Not sure though what the resolution is.

What they're doing is failing to meet his needs . It's appalling and one of the reasons I quit teaching. It's abusive.

She's already stated that one works with a child with medical need, the other is doing her job in helping all children access the curriculum I would imagine.

My grandson really struggled in reception. Within his first year of school they got him a 1:1 TA, no improvement - then they applied and were successful in getting an EHCP. He was moved to a specialised school because mainstream just couldn't cope with him. He was diagnosed with ASD not long after starting his new school.

He barely lasted an hour a day in mainstream - he's done full days from day one in his new school, he loves it. Honestly, it makes me emotional thinking about it, I know how upsetting it is when they're so unsettled at school and you feel like they're being written off when they're still so tiny - it's such a relief that he's happy and thriving now.

I know from MN that this isn't typical and it can be a long drawn out process but that wasn't my DDs experience at all with my DGS.. Maybe my DGS experience was so smooth because the school admitted they couldn't meet his needs? They pushed for the EHCP just as much as my DD did. Has your DS's school given any indication what the long-term plan is? Do they think they can meet his needs with extra funding for support? Is there an educational psychologist at the school who can help?

I'd apply for the EHCP yourself, get the ball rolling.

It’s not how things are meant to work in the UK either (and not how children with SEN were managed at DS’s school, despite far more challenging behaviour).

OP, I’ve never been in a primary school without locks on the classroom doors (to prevent intruders as well as escapees). I’ve also never known a reception class without a TA. The school can do better than they are doing, even without an EHCP.

No school in my area has adequate funding such that classes got merged and a teacher reduced in one school with very high SEN need. That’s barely meeting the needs of any learners. TAs are very difficult to recruit.

Appreciate your advice to the OP but the way you’re describing this is not reality in most schools I know. Is that right, no. But it’s also only fair to give a real-world view.

The lie here:
the earliest we would think of applying for one would have to be this time next year as we have to show evidence of at least 3 cycles of Plan, Do, Review (ILPs) before we could apply.’
Is that it takes a year to do 3 cycles of APDR. I have got EHCPs for children with 3 cycles of APDR of a month each. You just need to show what the school are putting in place, how that is working out for the child and whether they are managing to meet targets with what school are putting in place. One round could be done in half a term. In fact they could probably write them retrospectively - if they have had targets and been working on them. It doesn't sound like they have.

They don't sound like an ASD friendly school, which is awful in this day and age. They need training maybe from the LA.

What is the reception class like? Have you visited?

I often think that reception year is the worst place for children with autism. Unlike nursery, the adult to child ratio is that of a mainstream year 1 class and yet the set up is free flow, child-led. Adults love this, but for those on the spectrum who love a bit of decorum, purpose, fairness and an agenda it’s hell. There are usually few routines, few rules, and few opportunities to go to a space free of intrusion. The noise is constant. The environment is cluttered, overly bright. Overwhelming, even for adults. Coupled with this, the child’s own struggles with communication and understanding of unspoken social rules means they do not interact with peers in the same way as all those confident, knowledgeable and articulate children. Frustrating.

His trying to escape tells us that he just does not like it there. His talking to others during carpet time is because they run away from him at other times.

He’s learning that if he acts up, or pushes the door, he gets quiet and peaceful time in someone’s office. Hell, I’d do that too.

He’s at risk of maladapting further. Hitting others, falling behind with language development.

The school’s collective hands are tied because the EYFS set up is mandatory, even in private schools. It’s the confident, priviledged extrovert’s paradise.

In the meantime, he needs an escape that is not a door to outside or someone’s office. I suggest his own workstation just for him at the edge of the EY classroom, and a set of ear covers. I would also suggest supervised interventions and teaching to help him interact with others, Something like structured play - hopscotch, skipping rope, how to throw and catch a ball with others and how to use the role play area with others.

Op please read this comment. We have a very similar ds and were fobbed off for years. I now realise we should have got an EHCP in nursery. Please contact one of the specialist SEN organisations for advice on getting an EHCP. There is one called IPSEA and one called SOSSEN. Your ds is missing so much education every day that I think they will advise you just apply now for an EHCP as parents and don’t wait.

Because the other children in the ckass need a break from the stress of his challenging behaviour, and the teacher needs him out of the way to be able to teach the other children

Or perhaps the school need training in de-escalation and how to work with autistic children.

I understand your point and there’s an issue that the school do not have adequate facilities for your child. But you are being unreasonable in that you expect other children’s learning to be disrupted so your child can have carpet time. Personally I would have looked if they could provide adequate sensory facilities for your child before enrolling.

He started a mainstream primary school in September as he is autistic, but high functioning and wasn’t diagnosed until end of year with ASD.

I'm not sure if that's truly the definition of "high functioning". High functioning autistic children are usually those that learn to mask from a very early age (often girls) and blend in perfectly, with almost no behavioural or academic issues. They pay the price for this in mental health but most end up coping all the way through to uni. Some may never even get diagnosed until adulthood.

When mainstream schools accept high-functioning autistic kids, they usually mean the sort that are quiet & shy, possibly with a special interest in letters, numbers, art, music or hyperlexic (advanced reading skills). Any child that starts disrupting the class or takes teaching resources away from others will be a challenge and the school could be deliberately using mismatched strategies in hopes the parents will change schools.

Put in place strategies to help him cope in class?
Not punish him by making him sit, ignored, watching others play and learn?