It's an in law one...

[inlawproblems]

First of all, I must start by saying that I love my PIL... 99% of the time.

DH has two brothers. One of them lives in the same town as us with his wife and children, and the other lives five hours away with his wife and child. We get on well with the one who lives five hours away but we haven't seen them for over a year due to the distance. They will be visiting next weekend and we are looking forward to seeing them.

Things aren't so great with my other BIL and his wife. His wife hasn't spoken to us for 18 months since our daughter was born, for a really stupid reason. He is backing his wife up but we don't think he really believes they are in the right. Before my daughter's birth we all got on well.

Literally everyone thinks they are being completely ridiculous and the thing they are upset about is utterly trivial. To avoid drip feeding, they are upset that we named our daughter a very common top 10 name which also happens to be their daughter's second middle name.

Anyway. We have invited the visiting BIL and his wife and child for Sunday lunch next weekend. We were also planning on inviting PIL.

When I mentioned this to FIL two weeks ago he said he was rather hoping that we would do something all together. I said that until BIL and SIL acknowledge how hurtful their behaviour has been and apologise to us, we don't want to have a relationship with them. FIL said they will never explain or apologise, and so I said in that case we won't be seeing them. He wants us to just let it go and play happy families. I made it very clear that doesn't work for us.

Today PIL came round for lunch and everything was normal, nobody mentioned next weekend. And then an hour or so after they'd gone home, MIL put a message on the family WhatsApp group saying they want us all to come round for cake next Saturday afternoon and Grandma will be there too.

We have not replied yet. We don't want to go. We feel that we are being strongarmed into seeing them and pretending everything is normal, when what we want is to have a discussion. (They have refused multiple requests from us to meet and talk.) PIL are banking on the fact that if we go next weekend we won't want to cause a scene in front of Grandma, or be unpleasant to SIL who is two months postpartum. (I wouldn't piss on her if she were on fire at this point but I recognise that the optics of having a go at a woman who's just had a baby in front of the entire family aren't great.) They're right about us not wanting to make a scene in those circumstances. That's why we don't want to go.

AIBU?

Thanks for reading if you made it to the end of this!

I remember the original post. Their reaction to your choice of baby name was irrational and unreasonable.

But, this situation is not for the PIL to sort out. They are entitled to issue invitations to all of their children and spouses in the hope they can see all their adult children together. Perhaps they have the hope such a stupid squabble can be smoothed over at a family event, and this is their way of attempting to sort it out. If I was them I would be bodyswerving the “hey SIL, You must apologise to @inlawproblems in order to restore harmony” conversation - would likely lead to a fall-out between them too.

It’s obvious your SIL is not going to issue an apology or explanation for her reaction - it wouldn’t really fit with that kind of personality type.
My choice would be to go to family events, be civil but stonewall her. You don’t have to be her pal, just be uninterested. If you view that as “her winning” and just can’t see past it then it can’t be resolved - don’t go, say you’ve other plans but don’t drone on to PIL about it - it’s not their fight.

You sound as bad as each other.

They have already spoken. BIL says it's all my fault but won't talk to me about it. There's been no acknowledgement whatsoever about how hurtful their behaviour has been.

This may have already been asked (I’ve read all your replies but not everyone’s posts) but could your DC go without you? Would PIL look after them?
That way, they get their photo with grandchildren but you still establish your boundary and your SIL doesn’t win. And your WhatsApp response is ‘thank you for the invite. For reasons you are aware of myself and DH do not feel comfortable attending, however DC would love to spend time with their cousins’.
Just a thought.

@inlawproblems your problem is more than the invite?

You can just say no to the invite, it's that simple?

You seem to want the entire family to side with you on the argument and stop contact with the BIL and SIL on your say so?

You expect your PIL to side with you and leave the others out of an invite to their own hone, you don't get to decide who is invited to their home.

You've made your point to not invite them to the family gathering at your home on the Sunday, you'll see the other BIL and PIL there.

It's no about the invite at all, it's about people not excluding the others because you want them too.

Stop involving others in your squabbles,

Grow up!

Be the bigger person. Accept the invitation and go. If SiL is as petty as you indicate then she won’t go. If she does, you might find that pretending there is no problem for an hour helps you all move on. Sometimes waiting for an apology you aren’t going to get becomes an act of cutting off your nose to spite your face. You are probably right that she was badly behaved towards you, but it isn’t worth holding a grudge over it.

OP sorry but you are being petty and a bit of a drama queen.

Language like “the aggressors, attack, hate, poisoning children’s minds” sounds a bit overblown!

Yes your SIL sounds rude and petty. No you’ll probably never get an apology. But you are certainly coming down to her level.

Do you want to stop your children having a relationship with their cousins, and their grandparents having the pleasure of seeing all their grandchildren together? If so you have to get over yourself. Some family members are dicks. Go, be frosty with her, but suck it up for your kids sake and put it behind you!

On your side here OP.

i would go AND have the conversation there. Be polite but bring it up. Let her squirm.

We want to say no to the invite. The problem is that we already discussed this two weeks ago and I told FIL that in the current circumstances we didn't think any whole family meet ups were a good idea. And now they have ignored that and invited us in front of the whole family so we look like the bad guys if we refuse. It feels manipulative.

I've been asking to be in the same room as them for about a year now so we can have a conversation and put this behind us and move on. They've rejected every single olive branch

Don't kid yourself you were offering olive branches. You want to confront them, have them fall over themselves apologising and whip themselves in public whilst tied to the stocks. They are probably terrified of having 'a conversation' with you. Frankly I would be.

If you genuinely wanted what sounded like a pretty close family to be resumed, swallow your pride. Apologise if you need to. Life's too short.

SIL will be there, they will want all the kids there and her baby is too little to go without her.

You have my sympathy. I am in a very similar situation for a reason that has never been disclosed despite me asking. I would not be held to ransom by your inlaws. They are fully aware of the situation and are trying to force you to be in the same place as your SIL and BIL. Having lived through this for years it's horrible but you haven't created the situation. Life is too short to fake relationships, choose those who want to be part of your lives as those you spend time with. Stick to your Sunday plans and tell them you are busy on Saturday but thanks for the invite etc...

Your SIL sounds like v hard work. However you are at risk of becoming like her and making a mountain out of a molehill here. You should really be approaching this like ‘she is a loon for thinking this is a big deal, let all us grown ups carry on as normal’. But instead you are rising to the madness and joining it with a ‘oh is it is a big deal I can’t be in a room with her’ behaviour. Yabu. Your poor PIL.

I get the feeling you just want to be told you’re right and they’re wrong, well I’m sorry but that’s life, and it’s short fir such a silly squabble.

just let it drop, no one is asking you to be all loving family, they just want their family together, so put your big girl pants on and move on, it’s cake fir Christ sake and the odd family get together.

its true what they say - you never know what tomorrow brings, is this really how you want to be

Wow. The more you post the more and more unreasonable I think you are. Sounds like you and SIL are cut from the same cloth.

You appear to absolutely love the drama and love prolonging the hatred. Because it’s abundantly clear you’ve never liked her at all.

The biggest thing (among so many awful things) that stood out to me was that three months into the silent/low contact treatment they were giving you, you found out their child was unwell and needed an operation. But you only got in touch another THREE MONTHS later, and then only to find out why they hadn’t been in touch with you?!?! You didn’t contact them about their poorly child? Didn’t rally round to support them? Didn’t set your ridiculous stalemate aside to be there for them during something awful?

maybe that’s why they no longer speak to you?

And to act so magananimous and benevolent just because you “put on a smile” when they had their “instant baby” (what god awful phrase is that? You’re horrid to think that way) because of your own pain and envy due to infertility struggles is another level of poisonous thinking, too.

Your poor cowardly husband and his poor cowardly brother, having their lifelong relationship ripped apart because of wives like you and her.

No one comes out of this smelling of roses OP. The whole sorry saga stinks to high heaven.

Just listen to yourself 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

you are being manipulative, not your FIL

I am in a very similar situation me and my partner do not speak to his brother and wife they are a lot younger than us and very immature. I made the decision I did not want to be around them or speak to them or have them involved in my DS life. We have spoke to PIL and they are hurt by the situation but respect this now. My partner still speaks and sees his brother occasionally but the conversation is casual and basic. Before we spoke to the PIL they did the exact same messaging everyone to arrange Christmas meals out etc and we politely declined everything till basically they stopped asking and understood we did not want to be around them. I would stand your ground and politely respond you can't make it. Not everyone has to be happy family's and like you said you have a good friend network with children who's relationships will be stronger than their biological cousins. I have the same situation and I'm happy to move on and accept that we will never be happy family's. Yes it is awkward sometimes but we have our own life and they have theirs do what makes you happy not what people expect you to do. And being the bigger person isn't always that easy or the best option.

I mean, if they were "terrified" of having this conversation, there were lots of very easy alternative options.

1. Not be complete dicks in the first place.
2. Say, "OK, let's put this behind us" at any point in the last year.
3. Not invite us to their son's birthday party and then not show up, leaving us effectively babysitting their kids while we still don't get any kind of explanation or chance to resolve the issue.

Not being complete dicks in the first place would have been by far the easiest option.

You do come across as pretty petulant op but having really tried to put myself in your position, I can hear what you're saying.

You have a few choices here. Short message saying thanks but busy (don't bother with any emotional stuff, you'll sound silly).

Go and outshine them (she really will have won if you stay away).
Text the BIL and ask to sort this out face to face (probably won't happen).

Please don't expect the PILs to intervene. In fact you don't know that they haven't already tried to have a quiet word.

Good luck with your decision. (I'd choose to outshine them) x

OP. I am 100% with you. Have an OTT SIL myself. She stopped speaking to us a year ago after sending DH a stream of incredibly nasty messages and decided she wanted nothing to do with us till we apologized. We had done nothing to apologize for.

But this wasn't the first time she had pulled this kind of stunt. She had done something similar to DH twice before we met ,and once when we dating. Everytime DH was the bigger person. Not this time. He is refusing to let her behavior go and as always his family are protecting SIL. They all acknowledge she is too much but that's just her, we should know what she's like. The family failing to hold her accountable just enables her behavior.

We have set the boundary that we will not be treated this way by her and are sticking to it. It has caused tension with his family but it's a hill DH is willing to die on and I back him up as there is no telling when she will pull this stunt again.

Id just go and not mention the row. Pretend it didn't happen.
Least said, soonest mended.

Its family, and even if people have been dicks. Its not judge judy.

Look, we discussed this a fortnight ago. I clearly told my FIL "no". Then they came round today, spent all afternoon with us and didn't mention this. Then an hour after they left our house they repeated their request, in front of the whole family. Sorry but that's manipulative. They could have said, this afternoon, "We'd really like to see everyone together, will you really not reconsider?"

They will not have that discussion as they will have to say out loud the reason for their behaviour. It will make them look utterly ridiculous therefore they won't do it. Stand firm OP, my SIL stopped speaking to me out of the blue 12 years ago without giving a reason. No one gave a crap until she did it to them too and then they acknowledged she has serious issues!

What would you be seething about someone else’s engagement? It’s not like he proposed in the middle of the best man speech?!?