It's an in law one...

[inlawproblems]

First of all, I must start by saying that I love my PIL... 99% of the time.

DH has two brothers. One of them lives in the same town as us with his wife and children, and the other lives five hours away with his wife and child. We get on well with the one who lives five hours away but we haven't seen them for over a year due to the distance. They will be visiting next weekend and we are looking forward to seeing them.

Things aren't so great with my other BIL and his wife. His wife hasn't spoken to us for 18 months since our daughter was born, for a really stupid reason. He is backing his wife up but we don't think he really believes they are in the right. Before my daughter's birth we all got on well.

Literally everyone thinks they are being completely ridiculous and the thing they are upset about is utterly trivial. To avoid drip feeding, they are upset that we named our daughter a very common top 10 name which also happens to be their daughter's second middle name.

Anyway. We have invited the visiting BIL and his wife and child for Sunday lunch next weekend. We were also planning on inviting PIL.

When I mentioned this to FIL two weeks ago he said he was rather hoping that we would do something all together. I said that until BIL and SIL acknowledge how hurtful their behaviour has been and apologise to us, we don't want to have a relationship with them. FIL said they will never explain or apologise, and so I said in that case we won't be seeing them. He wants us to just let it go and play happy families. I made it very clear that doesn't work for us.

Today PIL came round for lunch and everything was normal, nobody mentioned next weekend. And then an hour or so after they'd gone home, MIL put a message on the family WhatsApp group saying they want us all to come round for cake next Saturday afternoon and Grandma will be there too.

We have not replied yet. We don't want to go. We feel that we are being strongarmed into seeing them and pretending everything is normal, when what we want is to have a discussion. (They have refused multiple requests from us to meet and talk.) PIL are banking on the fact that if we go next weekend we won't want to cause a scene in front of Grandma, or be unpleasant to SIL who is two months postpartum. (I wouldn't piss on her if she were on fire at this point but I recognise that the optics of having a go at a woman who's just had a baby in front of the entire family aren't great.) They're right about us not wanting to make a scene in those circumstances. That's why we don't want to go.

AIBU?

Thanks for reading if you made it to the end of this!

Personally I think you're spot on about all of this. I think your sil is piece of work.

Some people thrive on having a feud. I know a couple of people who always seem to have some sort of ongoing disagreement with someone else, be it a family member, neighbour, friend or whoever.
I think it gives them a sense of power and control.

I don't think they are that upset about the use of the second bloody middle name...I think your sil enjoys discord and if it hadn't been this, it would have been something else eventually.

Tricky customer. I'd go along to the family gathering and be as sweet as pie. I totally understand why you are digging your heels in about this but it's only playing right into her hands.
Turn up and be delightful. That way NO ONE can accuse you of joining in with her shit. Let them feud ALONE. If she is determined enough she'll soon reveal herself as the petty, disagreeable idiot I imagine she is.

Give her enough rope and she'll hang herself. Play the long game. x

Well.. that you can’t discuss this at this next meeting is absolutely wrong. You can say whatever you want.

there is no ‘win’ left here, you won already in that everyone knows how ridiculous SIL/BIL are being, everyone knows what nephew said so IF at any point in the day, if any comment is made you seize on it - even if only a stupid arse comment from the nephew… “glad you brought that up, it’s been a totally moronic situation for far too long, they way we’ve been treated when we obviously have done nothing wrong is really ridiculous, so glad we’ve had the opportunity to air that in the family, NOW we’re ready to move on”

this way YOU claim the ‘win’, you acknowledge the stupidity of BIL//Sil, the rest of the family all know you’ve done nothing wrong.

so claim the higher ground, grow up and carry on, put the batshit pair on the back foot and muscle your way back in.

if nobody says boo to a goose in the family, use it to your advantage

stop skulking about like you’re in the wrong, be bold and brazen and know you’re in the right.

No, it's what everyone else wants. It's what is in everyone else's interests except ours. We can't force them to do anything they don't want to do but we are entitled to put in place some boundaries in response to their behaviour and we would like PIL to respect those boundaries.

DH has decided to send his brother a message today and ask him to come and talk to us on his own this week so we can try and put this to bed before Saturday.

Honestly I'd go and discuss it with them there. Politely, of course, with the view of putting it behind you all - not hash out who's right or wrong. You both obviously believe the other is wrong and has behaved badly. Bring a gift for the new baby.

It's your one chance to get face to face and bury the hatchet.

I think you are handling this terribly. And by removing yourself from family situations you are giving oxygen to a ridiculous concept.

You've done nothing wrong. So I don't see the need to avoid people and demand apologies. Just go along to family occasions with your family and carry on as if there's no problem. If BIL has a problem or his wife does let them be the ones to stay away.

This demanding an apology seems stupid. You're not going to get one. You don't have to be friends with them. You don't have to socialise outside of family gatherings. But they have a problem with something you did. You don't have any such problem. So get on with living your normal life and let them join in or not.

I just honestly don't see why you are staying away from family occasions. Turn up. Be pleasant. If they kick off then they are the ones causing trouble.

I haven't read all your posts. But you seem to enjoy the conflict.

Only read the first and last page! What a tricky situation. I agree with some PP that you shouldn't expect PIL to intervene. I also don't think you'll ever get an apology, so don't hold out for that. However you've made plenty of effort to rectify this situation, and your efforts have been rebuffed. I would simply, politely, and without giving a reason, decline the invitation.

You do have some grounds for grievance, OP. Until this update it sounded like a petty spat over a name. But we also struggled with infertility and our child was later ostracised by DH's brother and his wife over some minor perceived (and unintended) slight from me. I don't give a monkey's if neurotic people who take offence at the way someone looks at them want to cut me off, but my child is another matter.

In this position, as mine was very similar, I cared nothing for apologies, never demanded one, and didn't wait for one. It would have made no difference in any event; people who respond in these childish ways are too much like hard work for me. I merely kept my distance and briefly acknowledged them at family events. They, however, studiously blanked me. Their choice.

FiL later died - he and MiL's husband were the ones in that family who I had a good relationship with - and BiL/wife refused to speak to me at his funeral. MiL is also a disappointment: having constantly been at my home during my maternity leave (she lived 2 hours away) she completely lost interest once DC had passed the cute baby stage. They now meet about twice a year, as facilitated by DH without my input.

Up to you, but with two fairly obstinate couples in the mix you are predictably finding little sympathy emanating from your thread. It might help to know someone understands your position, even though I might have responded differently to it. But you need to make up your mind that you are not going to receive either acknowledgement from your PiLs or apologies from your BiL/SiL. Base your decision on that, and choose if you really do want a complete divide in your family, or to be 'right'. I hope things turn out well.

Oh just seen that DH is sending brother a message - that sounds like it could be a good idea.

Inlawproblems has your DH explicitly said that it was him that chose to name is daughter with one of his niece's middle names?

Why is he letting them blame you?

God woman there’s nothing to put to bed. Just let it go.

She doesn’t want to be your friend but she wants to be civil. She doesn’t owe you an apology

You and SiL are spoiling the relationship between the brothers

You ought to back off

The brother is probable fed up of the rift and wants to sort things but is being led by his ridiculous wife.

Sounds like a big storm in a tea cup. Everyone throwing hissy fits for trivial reasons-your sil over a name and you over their tantrum. Your poor PIL. Yes I’d go and be civil rather than holding out for some apology which is meaningless anyway. If your kids query it, be straight-yes they are upset because we chose the same name but that’s up to them.

You need to be the grown up here and put your pil and children before your perceived slight.

What do you want to achieve in your meeting with bil? Honestly? You want him to apologise and say his wife is totally in the wrong and stupid.
You know you are not going to get this and then you are going to use the refusal to meet/apologise as an excuse to continue your fued.

You need to forget about looking for your apology and just go and be civil. Its not nice how your sil/bil have behaved but its not worth your reaction here.

You need to let go of this and move on. Go and be civil. Stop looking for explanations and apologies.

Absolutely this. I wouldn’t go and I’d stay out of it from now on. His family his problem. Life’s too short for this nonsense (and thinking you own a name is defo nonsense)

I'm glad that your DH has contacted his brother.

But please, PLEASE don't turn the meeting into an insistance that they apologise. A forced apology is worth nothing, and will just derail the discussion.
Approach him in a spirit of sadness rather than anger. Focus on misunderstanding and miscommunication, rather than seeing it as an intention to hurt on either side.

Wow, at the beginning of the thread I was on OPs side. But after reading all of her many many replies she is clearly the problem. Poor DH and his family, torn apart by something so stupid.

Wow, @inlawproblems , you've had some shitty replies here. All these know-it-alls who tell you that you are in the wrong and that you SHOULD be the bigger person, or that you are the same as your SIL. They have no idea
Says a lot more about them as people than you, so please ignore them.
Your PIL have undermined you, and your DH & kids - they have done a shitty thing, and they know this will have put you in a difficult situation. Clearly, they are not in the same league as your SIL, but nevertheless, shitty. They need to acknowledge that it was shitty and accept that your BIL and SIL are creating family divisions, not you.
So sorry you are in this position; stick to your guns and don't go. But do get your daughter a t-shirt with her name on it and take a photo to post on the family whatsapp group!

I’m not sure how you being civil to her shows she’s won. I think you’re putting meaning on this that isn’t there.

im in total agreement with you - she’s being ridiculous.

But if I were you, I’d go and play happy families. I assume you haven’t apologised either, so you haven’t backed down. You being civil isn’t an admission that you are wrong- I assume she’ll have to be civil to you too?

you are in the right, but by continuing to refuse to mix, you’re looking petty too.

why not discuss with PIL and say you’ll rise above it, but you still think she has behaved badly and you’d appreciate some acknowledgment from them that this behaviour from SIL is unacceptable and they need to ensure that she is also civil to you?

This.
life’s far to short for petty quarrels, sometimes you just have to be the bigger person and move on. All that’s happening at the moment is that everyone’s feeling upset and your PIL are in the middle.
in the great scheme of things it’s such a petty quarrel, move on.

People can be very funny about baby names. Perhaps you shouldn't have selected the same name? Or asked them first. I would have been really annoyed if my sister in law had chosen the same name as my child and I'm sure she would have been livid if it was the other way round. There are literally millions of names you could have gone for.

If I were your BIL, I'd decline the invite to come to yours to clear the air.

However, I'd happily meet up with your DH on neutral ground.

If he comes to yours, his wife will, quite rightly, feel excluded, ganged up on and made to be the villain whose husband is being instructed to 'sort'.

Hi OP. I can see from all of your messages that this has been eating you up over the years and it's a source of huge frustration and anger. I'll bet that when you typed this up and type your responses, your heart rate rockets. It's hard when you haven't done anything wrong to feel like you are expected to be the bigger person.

I had a similar situation recently where someone was off with me and it consumed me - I was so bloody angry and it was disturbing my sleep and I was thinking of it constantly. I knew after the third night of disturbed sleep that for my own sanity, I HAD to let it go. I was clear in my communication with the other person (it was a work thing) that they were in the wrong (clumsily phrased here but my actual communication was fine) but that I had to move on for the sake of my own wellbeing.

You know that you are not in the wrong, your PIL know that you're not in the wrong. Two parties know this and know it well. For your own sake, stop trying to 'win' in this way, try to 'win' by letting it go. You don't have to be best friends, you don't have to fawn over them but you can turn up, be courteous and move on. Honestly, for your own wellbeing, I urge you to consider it.

OP, from what I'm reading you feel that you deserve an apology from your husband's brother & SIL because of their behaviour towards the choice of your daughters name. Given that you feel so much vitriol towards SIL and not so much towards BIL, I really doubt that an apology; no matter how heartfelt was given, it would ever be enough and you would remain righteous that you've always done the 'right' thing and been benevolent with your attempts to heal the rift.

Imagine, meeting them and both of them being prolifically sorry (not that they would by the sounds of it). Exactly how would this wipe out the last 18 months? It won't. You'd always feel a resentment for the pain they caused for the 18 months and by not acknowledging your DD. So pursuing this isn't going to bring closure for you.

That leaves you to drink your own poison so you have to find a way to not get bent out of shape about your PIL (who both still love all their children (despite the DILs not getting on)) inviting everyone. All they are trying to do is bring back some kind of harmony to their children's relationships; you can't fault them for that however in doing so, you feel they are trampling on your boundaries. All you and your DH have to do is explain to them AGAIN that by issuing this invite it's trampling over your boundaries and you'd like them to at least acknowledge that. But you also have to acknowledge that, as parents, they are trying to ensure this doesn't go nuclear with the 2 brothers, they feel that the invite might go some way to preventing that scenario.

Do your PIL's know the amount of times and what you've done to offer olive branches? Perhaps they've heard a different version of events from their other son and feel you're all being as bad as each other, hence the attempt to meet up?

He's not letting them blame me. He's been very clear that it was his choice.

They think it was my fault because I knew that it was one of their daughter's middle names and I should have (a) understood that this meant it was off limits to us and (b) communicated this to my husband.

BIL made some nasty comments about how our marriage can't be all that great if we don't communicate these things to each other.

I have no idea why he thinks it was my job to communicate his wish for us not to use his daughter's middle name to his own brother (especially when he hadn't even communicated that wish to me in the first place), rather than his job to say, "Hey DB, please don't use our children's middle names."

That's exactly what she is, to be fair.