It's an in law one...

[inlawproblems]

First of all, I must start by saying that I love my PIL... 99% of the time.

DH has two brothers. One of them lives in the same town as us with his wife and children, and the other lives five hours away with his wife and child. We get on well with the one who lives five hours away but we haven't seen them for over a year due to the distance. They will be visiting next weekend and we are looking forward to seeing them.

Things aren't so great with my other BIL and his wife. His wife hasn't spoken to us for 18 months since our daughter was born, for a really stupid reason. He is backing his wife up but we don't think he really believes they are in the right. Before my daughter's birth we all got on well.

Literally everyone thinks they are being completely ridiculous and the thing they are upset about is utterly trivial. To avoid drip feeding, they are upset that we named our daughter a very common top 10 name which also happens to be their daughter's second middle name.

Anyway. We have invited the visiting BIL and his wife and child for Sunday lunch next weekend. We were also planning on inviting PIL.

When I mentioned this to FIL two weeks ago he said he was rather hoping that we would do something all together. I said that until BIL and SIL acknowledge how hurtful their behaviour has been and apologise to us, we don't want to have a relationship with them. FIL said they will never explain or apologise, and so I said in that case we won't be seeing them. He wants us to just let it go and play happy families. I made it very clear that doesn't work for us.

Today PIL came round for lunch and everything was normal, nobody mentioned next weekend. And then an hour or so after they'd gone home, MIL put a message on the family WhatsApp group saying they want us all to come round for cake next Saturday afternoon and Grandma will be there too.

We have not replied yet. We don't want to go. We feel that we are being strongarmed into seeing them and pretending everything is normal, when what we want is to have a discussion. (They have refused multiple requests from us to meet and talk.) PIL are banking on the fact that if we go next weekend we won't want to cause a scene in front of Grandma, or be unpleasant to SIL who is two months postpartum. (I wouldn't piss on her if she were on fire at this point but I recognise that the optics of having a go at a woman who's just had a baby in front of the entire family aren't great.) They're right about us not wanting to make a scene in those circumstances. That's why we don't want to go.

AIBU?

Thanks for reading if you made it to the end of this!

She's nuts isn't she. I can't believe noone in the wider family has told her to get a grip

You are messing up the relationship of two brothers who were previously close. Your DH is telling you what you want to hear because he is probably scared about the drama you'd make if he tried to go to this event without you. For the sake of your husband and his parents you should let this all drop and calm the fuck down.

SquishyGloopyBumSquishyGloopyBum,, you're absolutely right,I would be as sweet as saccharine simply to wrongfoot them!

@inlawproblems I bet he wants to go less than you do, imagine the fucking backlash if he went?

I mean the drama of a WhatsApp invite, being called emotional blackmail would be nothing compared to what he'd be accused of if he dared to go!

I think it would be a LTB situation for you!

I get the distinct impression that anyone daring to disagree with you, it's going to feel your wrath..

The original sulking over a name was childish, and your keeping it going by foot stamping over 'who wins' is equally petulant.

I bet your PIL feel obliged to invite everyone and there will be sighs of relief all round when one or both warring couples refuse to go. PIL and the visiting family/Grandma win.

I don't know how many times I need to say that my husband is just as angry as I am.

We spoke to a family friend who has apparently heard both sides of the story and he told us that for several months after our daughter was born BIL and SIL were arguing because she was really angry about it and he was telling her to let it go for the sake of the family. Then their daughter was unwell and they had other things on their mind (understandably), and after sending them our best wishes we gave them some space, which is what we thought they wanted. Once she was out of the woods and our daughter was 6 months old and they still hadn't accepted any of our invitations to meet up, my husband finally spoke to BIL and said, "Is there a problem? Because we used to be close and now for some reason we're not and I don't understand why." So BIL said what the reason was and my husband hit the roof. He said it was absolutely ridiculous and he couldn't believe they had iced us out for 6 months over something so utterly trivial. And then apparently that made BIL angry because my husband didn't sympathise with their position at all, or apologise.

I wasn't involved in that conversation at all, so I waited a few weeks to let things calm down a bit and then I started reaching out to BIL myself to try and sort things out. My husband wanted to just let them go to hell and I was the one saying it was important to sort things out for the sake of the family. But all my attempts since last September have been flat out rejected and now we're both just incredibly hurt and angry. Our daughter is the only grandchild that hasn't been properly welcomed into the family by everyone, and it really hurts, particularly given all the effort we went to when their first child was born and we weren't sure whether we would even be able to have a baby of our own.

Honestly, just go and don't mention it. They will show their true colours if it really is as simple as tking offence over your daughter's name.

It is sad for two brothers to fall out like this over something so silly. Family is family. Yes, you are in the right but do you really want your DH to be on bad terms with his brother for the rest of their lives? Would you want your two chikdren to be like that in the future?

I think you should go. Tell PIL beforehand that you are still upset about the whole thing but will make an effort in order to stop a permanent rift developing, and you hope B and SIL will do the same. They might then say something to them.

I know this is not what you want to hear!

Don’t expect “consequences” for your in-laws. Just let it go and move on. Let your children be friends with their cousins. You’re being petty and unreasonable.

@inlawproblems how have you properly welcomed their new baby into the family?

Sure no-one is under any obligation to anyone for any reason really. Of course if we all went around thinking like that our species would die out within a generation. The OP, from her own descriptions of what's going on is showing her self up as every bit as bad as her SIL. The whole situation is hurting her PIL. Anyone who cared about them even a fraction of a normal amount would just be the bigger person.

Well the good thing is that your husband and his brother are still speaking.

In reality it is the wife who has fallen out with you.

YABVU to expect these in-laws to sort out your fall out. If I was them I would also invite everyone and that is the fairest way to do it.

With all due respect you do seem slightly petty yourself. I hope that you continue to encourage a relationship between your husband and his brother - seems like they’re caught between two war-ing wives and that they don’t really give a F!!!

They're not speaking anymore.

I sent BIL a long and heartfelt letter back in February saying we really didn't mean to upset them, which he didn't acknowledge. A couple of weeks later my husband texted his brother asking if he got the letter, and he didn't reply.

Other than us both saying a perfunctory "congratulations" on the family WhatsApp group when their latest child was born in May, there has been no communication between them since.

Absolutely that. The poor PILs. They've been caught in the middle of this argument between their ADULT children and they're being expected to choose sides and fix everything. That's entirely unfair. They were not involved in the argument and it's not their responsibility to fix

You seem to be the stubborn ones here. Obviously BIL and wife are agreeing to attend, but you're digging your heels in. So the other brother's visit is being affected by your behaviour and he's another one stuck in the middle.

From visiting brothers perspective, it's you that's the problem. His parents are arranging a family get together in his honour. Middle name brother is putting the argument aside and going. You're being as stubborn as all hell.

And yes, your PIL's fear of not seeing their grandkids if they don't do child care is probably very real. I have two sets of friends in this position. It's grim.

I think @Miffylou has given you some good advice there Op.
Go, let the children have a nice time , life’s too short for all this drama. Do you still want to be disagreeing about it when the children start school, just because none of the adults were prepared to resolve or ignore the situation.

Starting to think bluebird could be SIL. Way overinvested in this thread.

My daughter doesn't even know she has cousins because she's seen them twice, as a baby, and my son has pretty much forgotten. I am sad about it because he used to love spending time with his cousin, but he's got his own friends now at nursery. When we showed up for nephew's birthday they acted like they'd never met each other before. But they're not going to get that relationship back by spending awkward lunches together twice a year at the in laws. Without a proper reconciliation we won't be spending time together off our own bat, so I think the children have lost out whatever happens. We have just accepted that we will need to prioritise building solid relationships with our close friends/their godparents' children.

Maybe things will change in the future but right now it just feels too toxic and I don't see any benefit for my children at all.

@inlawproblems

How would you feel if the others had met up with grandma and you weren't invited?

Would that make you happy? Or would've said you were excluded?

Or do you not want your PILto invite their son to their home? Is that what you expect from them?

To pick you over the other family?

Poor PIL, you seem to literally be trying to dictate who they invite or how they incite them?

Maybe they think it will help heal the rift? Maybe they think it'll stop the nonsense.

Well we have at least congratulated them on his safe arrival on the family WhatsApp group. (Emoji response from BIL, nothing at all from SIL.) I felt like completely ignoring their news like they did when my daughter was born, but I'm not capable of that level of rudeness. Difficult to do more than that when we have no relationship with them.

@Matronic6 nah, just can't believe how DILs try to dictate to their PIL how to live their lives!

Are you one of "thise" DILs?

I presume so.

I don’t know. Ops feelings are perfectly reasonable. But I think 20 years down the track you might look back and wish you’d made different decisions. Given ‘the birthday party’ do you think they’d even go? What if you went and just ignored them? Then you wouldn’t be ruling yourself out of family Christmas etc. Did you gently say any kind of useful explanation to your nephew when he said that? ‘Don’t be silly, no one can steal a name. Is your sister affected? No she’s not. When you’re big and you’ll get to school you will see that no one will know anyone’s second middle names and nothing has been stolen’
out of interest, is sil married into your dhs family? If so, your pil will have very little ability to do anything, they cant really tell her off. Their son, they could, but that doesn’t seem to help anything. so if that’s the case I would probably start to go to family things, pretty much ignore them, and rip them a new one in front of everyone if they said anything. If she is their daughter and your husband’s sister I’d expect your husband to tell her how you both feel and how she can fuck off and the pil to grow a pair and parent. But I have a spoilt sil so I feel pretty strongly about holding your ground 😁

This - they were / are out of order but you expecting a formal apology is also OTT. They are dicks just be civil. Your whole thing about telling your daughter you all fell out over her name is so dramatic.
you saying the name is in the top 10 means nothing - you were aware of what your nieces middle name was before you named your child and did use the same name… but who really cares.

I can't imagine how awful it would be if this kind of argument happened between my daughters and partners. I'd be broken hearted. And equally upset with both the one whose ridiculousness started it, and the one who's so stubborn that they refuse any attempt for me to have a family event.

All my sympathy is with the PILs (and the brother and his family whose rare visit is going to be spoiled by this silly spat).

I've said this a few times now. I want them to stop pressuring us to meet up for happy family occasions and ignore the massive elephant in the room. I'd be happy to meet up with BIL and SIL first to discuss this and clear the air, and then we can all move on and agree to be civil at family events, but I resent being expected to show up and act like everything is normal and coo over their new baby when SIL is yet to even acknowledge the existence of our 18 month old.

I'm not asking them to choose between us, just stop expecting us to attend family events when there has been zero show of goodwill from BIL and SIL. We've tried to reach out to them. They don't want to know.

@inlawproblems so your daughter is not the only child not "properly" welcomed into the family?

Is a WhatsApp message a proper welcome?