To ask what I can do to make my child ok spending time with their abusive parent

[Vinividivici]

I don't want to make my 7 year old daughter spend time with her father, who repeatedly strangled her and who (along with his wife) constantly put me down to her. She hates him and every time she sees him, she is very upset afterwards. I don't know what exactly they are doing to make her unhappy other than the obvious.

However, I don't really have any choice due to the incredibly messed up court system. In fact, I am at risk of losing her if we go to court because her dad claims she doesn't want to see him because I have alienated her from him. Apparently courts believe these things.

I already act like it's good for her to be with her dad and I don't say anything negative about him.

What else can I do?

@Singleandproud she was actually very, very clear about what happened . I am calling it "strangling" because this is the accurate grown up term for what she described.

I have already been doing these things, so perhaps I just need to carry on.

I’m in a similar situation. I fled from domestic abuse when I was pregnant. Even after leaving, my ex was threatening to kill me, telling me him and his friends knew where I live who were going to ‘beat the s**t out of me’ and he also told me that I needed to say goodbye to my baby whilst he was in my stomach as I was was never going to see him again. Naturally, I was in fear of my life and went to the police numerous times when pregnant. When baby was here, I requested any support so the police, health visitors, social services, medical professionals who all said don’t allow him contact.

Yet it went to court, and me and my baby was failed and my abuser got what he wanted. Courts shamed ME for not allowing contact and told me ‘a bad partner doesn’t make a bad dad’. He also failed multiple drug tests and the courts gave him unsupervised contact to my BABY. Since we’re here, they also made my baby have his surname changed, put ‘no third party allowed’ in the order as ex only wanted to see me, forced me to be in contact with him, and as stated - shamed me for doing what was best for my baby. Courts enabled my abuser and further abused me.

My son is now 4 and I have no idea of the way his dad treats him. I fled during pregnancy to get away from the abuse and I kind of wish I stayed as at least if we were still together I would know if he was abusive to him and could have protected my son. My son is sen and has limited speech which makes it worse to know if he’s being abused. Courts do nothing to protect neither the children or parents of domestic abuse and it’s terrifying.

Abusive parents all cry ‘alienation’. My son’s dad told everyone he knew that I kept his child ‘for no reason’ but failed to tell people the real truth why I had to make that decision. I mean, who in their right mind would think a 21 year old would flee a relationship with a 30 year old whilst pregnant and not question why they made that decision? I guess I’m ranting as I get heated with this topic, but they cry alienation and everyone believes THEY are a victim. COURTS are also enablers.

@orangeleopard I am so sorry to hear that you have been through this. My daughter has said recently that she wishes that I had stayed with her daddy because then I could always be with her. It's heartbreaking to see the impact these relationships with abusers have on children.

@Vinividivici did Cafcass tell you that if you felt your DD was at risk of harm, you should stop contact?

Is it accepted by Cafcass that you are the resident parent?

It sounds like you have some faith in your ex’s partner as you say you don’t think she would allow him to physically hurt your DD and he did it when she was not present? Would you be able to use her as someone who would keep your DD safe, ie saying you’d be more comfortable if she is always present and DD is not left alone with her dad? You cannot be criticised for withholding contact then.

Also, could the arrangement be that DD is collected from school by her dad and his partner? This way, if DD becomes distressed or starts to refuse, there would be independent people, ie school staff, who would see this. It’s not just your word. If they became very concerned they’d potentially make a referral for support, which could be in the form of Early Help.

Your story is distressingly familiar. It defys logic and morality that every agency seems determined to facilitate the abusive parent and fail to protect the child, often punishing the protective parent in the process. But this really IS what is happening- over and over.

My advice is not to show any opposition to “the system”. You can’t win.

Try to provide a peaceful, nurturing environment for your child where she can feel safe, secure and de-stress from her experiences at her dad’s. You might find equine therapy or similar helpful.

Sadly in reality all you can do is wait. She will grow up, and come to an age where she can say “no” to contact with him. In the meantime she needs you to be positive, happy, peaceful and safe.
God bless you.

Heartbreaking how many of us flee abuse only to find we can no longer keep our children safe

My experience was very much that fathers rights seemed to be more important than the welfare of the children

Even when my son made heartbreaking disclosures to his headteacher, who wrote to children's services and the court on his behalf. Even then, cafcass just minimised what had happened and decided dad was a decent sort based on 30 minutes having a cup of tea with him (I note I got a 3 minute phone call, even though I lived 5 minutes away). Abusers can charm the socks of strangers.

In the end my son had to just refuse to go, even though he found that very distressing as his dad was shouting at him through the door

If women knew how bad it was, no doubt more would stay and just suffer. At least when all are at home under the same roof, you have some hope of protecting your child.

Once my daughter is old enough that her wishes are respected by the court, I think that I will dedicate a lot of my time to campaigning for a change in law on this issue.

@AspenTree unfortunately, the wife is a total psycho and openly emotionally abuses my daughter in front of me. But no, I don't think she condones physical abuse.

Previously, I had it arranged so that all exchanges happened at school and I am keen to return to this practice.

Right, has anyone professionally asked your DD? If not, there mist be a way where you can get a professional to have a chat with her and get a statement, including the steangling and any other abuse.
Have you ever reported this to the police? If not, why?!

They would have to put me in jail before I let my DD leave my side in this case. No way I would handle her over.

This is addressed above:

Child services has investigated and they seemed annoyed with the whole thing especially after my ex got to them. He is aggressive and manipulative, but can be disarmingly charming. Both he and his wife, who is totally nuts, seem very posh.

The police didn't take it further because my daughter said she didn't want Daddy to get into trouble.

My daughter told SS and police about the abuse, with no inconsistencies (but admittedly little detail). Basically, no one wants to put their heads above the parapet without solid evidence like bruising etc.

It's viewed as my word against his and he is a charming psychopath.

I know a woman who was threatened by a judge with jail if she continued to raise concerns about her daughter’s welfare while at her abusive father’s house for contact.

Family court seems reluctant to accept that the reason a child might not want to go for contact is that s/he is actually being abused….even when there is a history of documented domestic abuse against the mother, including police involvement.

Make it make sense 🤷🏼‍♀️

I am not sure whether to really believe that your DD told the police, including about the strangling, but they asked a child to make a formal statement and they did not pursue further be ause the child did not want to get daddy into trouble....
This is just plain weird!

Have you suggested supervised visits?

Ok I'm so sorry you're in this situation. I believe you and I believe your daughter. Abuse like this is hideous, insidious and incredibly damaging, though I don't need to tell you that I'm sure.
My eldest adoptive daughter was subject to similar abuse.
If I were you I'd spend every last penny on a lawyer who specialises in child abuse. Report the harassment to the police every time, keep your daughter talking.
I would also engage professionals, art therapy for example is considered favourably by the courts - it allows your dd to explore her feelings in a date independent environment which will help her in addition When/if she discloses the abuse there, or expresses it, it will add weight to your position.

Hi Op, does your child have a phone? It might be that she needs to call the police at his house? I know it’s horrible putting a child in that position but, the system can be utterly useless!

Yes! The ideology of Parental Alienation is that children always are very attached to their abuser.

Therefore, if a father were really abusive, then the child naturally would be very attached to them.

The argument continues that abusers turn children against unfortunate parents who don't deserve it at all (usually fathers, of course), even to the point of making false allegations.

Therefore, if a child is not attached their father and is alleging abuse by their father, this in itself is evidence that the mother is the true abuser.

It's mind-bending and circular, and does not admit the possibility that some children understand that abuse is wrong and therefore don't like their abusive parent.

For the people that are saying they can’t believe that the courts/police/social are not taking the right actions, in this country it is legal for pedophiles to have access/rights to their child. It is only recently they a proposal has being made to change the law. The system is messed up. Have a read on serious case reviews where children have died as a result of social workers/police not doing their job, even though they have sufficient evidence.

Ok, well I am not lying.

Yes, I have been supervising the visits and it's absolutely excruciating. The father is basically refusing this now, however.

I am not saying you are lying. I have no clue.
But, it is just not normal.
I am lucky enough that I have not seeing SS or police going down to this level of uselessness. That does not mean you are lying. It just makes zero sense.
But, you have no court order, I would refuse any access, at least is supervised. End of. Even if I go to jail myself. Because the abuse is hurting her, but the silence of the authorities around her and the pushing her to see him, when she does not and it is known it is a risk to her, is as good as telling her every day of her childhood she is worthless, she is nothing, just a piece of shit and she is to take it all, quietly.

If you go to jail where does the child live?

I, seriously, would stick to today, now and do not think of the consequences if my child has told me (and other bunch of grown ups, who, by law, must keep a written record) that their father physically and emotionally abuses them. I would protect my child and that would be it.
Bad things may happen, but at least, that child had someone to fight for them, till the end. And that, you can ask anyone who has suffered abuse, is a lot to them.

Police would not take no further action based on the say of a 7 year old.

Children's Social care do not close cases where there is evidenced risk.

Strangulation is a serious safeguarding issue. If he did strangle your child I assume you sought medical help to ensure he had not damaged her neck? In which case there would be medical records to prove this.

Something in your story doesn't add up.

Emotional abuse is one of the cornerstones in child safeguarding practice. Is this thread real?