To hope all the reform voters take a hard look in the mirror?

[Tukmgru]

I have to wonder how you live with yourselves. It’s like you know you’re awful people, not just filled with spite and hate but also motivated by it. I genuinely am so baffled how you can sit here on this forum that is largely about supporting others through difficult times - perhaps you’ve found help and comfort in the various threads MN has to offer, and then you go ‘yep, fuck everyone else’.

My aunt was a BNP and then UKIP supporter, and a grifter par excellence throughout her life, and all of her arguments were the same as the arguments I’ve seen on here by Reform voters here. 4 million people went out there to declare ‘I’m a complete dickhead to everyone around me but want everyone to hand everything to me on a spoon’

Just fuck off.

(I’m not even a labour or green or whatever voter, I just think you’re awful people and deserve nothing but contempt)

Ah the Lib Dem’s, the party who tell women to shut up when they don’t want to strip naked next to a strange man. Women voting for the shit show that is the Lib Dems clearly aren’t that educated.,

The Lib Dem’s are popular in those areas because there is a detachment from reality for a lot of the voters

This poster is spot on!! You’re the one that needs help. You sound like a very unhappy soul

Absolutely, when will the 'tolerant and caring left' wake up to the fact that telling people "look you ignorant, pathetic evil fuckers, stop voting for who you want, and having your own stupid opinions and voting for things that matter to you is stupid and evil. Do what I tell you and fuck you if you're negatively affected. No one cares, you're scum"
doesn't actually work and thats why reform got so many votes?

What has he done in his 24 hours since becoming PM that's so heinous that you've made up your mind about who you'll vote for 5 years in advance? Odd. Very odd.

I don't blame Reform voters. They're just looking for hope and an answer to their issues just as much as everyone else are.

People are really struggling currently and people are experiencing different struggles. Some are influenced by social media and the clever but harmful algorithms, others are fooled by social factors without looking deeper and others are just looking for a saviour.

It's better to address the issues as these people often don't feel heard so go to the person who appears to be listening.

Yeah this. Everyone who has a right to vote should be able to vote for whoever they want. Otherwise what's the point.

Ah "those people", but you're not racist right? 🤣🤣

I live in a very working class area, surrounded by people of different races and skin colour. Like my white britsh neighbours some are nice and some are not.

Of course uncontrolled immigration is an issue that needs dealing with at source. But this country is on its knees due to corruption from our shit tory government.

Our NHS is broken and reform have made it totally clear they want private health care, you want that too?

You and your aunt sound pretty similar, @Tukmgru. Neither able to tolerate difference.

The places that returned a Reform leader, like Boston, are the places most affected by Immigration.Maybe their experiences are different from yours OP.
Last year there was 685k net migration.Our infrastructure can't cope as it is! Someone has to say when enough is enough!

Well said.

I didn’t but 4m did vote which is nearly half of Labour’s vote share

They may have disproportionately fewer seats but I think we’ll see more pressure still. Especially since Labour’s policies are the opposite to what they’re after. Eg increase in trafficking

Perhaps if people listened to each other and tried to understand why instead of ranting off and being rude about people who have different opinions the world would be a better place

I agree but we need to look at the issues that got us here and address them. If it's based on misinformation and false beliefs this also needs addressing.

This is exactly my point!! Why are you having a go at me when I specifically said I did not vote for reform.

JFC it’s like talking to toddlers. Ask the question in a way that creates discourse and not division. Ask a woman why she voted reform in a way that is not mud slinging.

@TroysMammy i think they were trying to say that those on minimum wage are too busy slogging their asses off to make ends meet to have the time to volunteer, not that they were lazy.

@Devonbabs that really isn't a big issue right now! I've got a hen party next month my underwear covers more than the bikini I have been given, not making a drama out of it like some people are over changing rooms and toilets! I'm more interested in how we are going to pay off the COVID borrowing and protect our kids from the country going bankrupt

I think the problem is that people see Farage sat in the pub pretending to be like them and they don't believe he'll shaft them, and they do t believe private healthcare will mean they barely ever see a doctor. They don't believe the USA healthcare model includes a much larger proportion of untrained nurses and that you have to be rich or very ill to actually visit a real doctor as opposed to an assistant to one. They don't realise that a large proof Americans can't afford health insurance and that we'd be told endless lies or given a cheap initial insurance deal to get the policy through.

And yes, Brexit was a fucking disaster, and people don't seem to realise that it caused the majority of people who immigrated here to actually be invited. So we should get over it, or care for ourselves in old age. Or trudge of to dignity, as much hinted recently.

"Reform is the reason we can't have proportional representation to prevent another Hitler which is what Nigel is."

I can't even with this comment. Are you seriously comparing Farage to Hitler? Do you often downplay the atrocities of the holocaust?

Exactly, I think unless you have experienced the effects of uncontrolled immigration and lack of desire to integrate its hard to understand the effects.

One of the Reform policies I liked was the Patriotic education. It all seems to be how awful Britain is/was, learning about other cultures whilst simulating ignoring our own traditions.

British education should primarily be about Britain, about British culture etc. We should expect people living in Britain to act in accordance with British traditions and norms. If people want to celebrate a different culture on top of that fine, that’s up to them. But when the school allows kids to drop out of PE and disrupt the lesson for a month because they’re fasting (which they don’t need to do), what message does this give for work environments?

Op, on the basis that I'm an eternal optimist who tries to see the good in most people, I have to assume for the sake of argument that 4 million of my fellow country men and women are not all racist, nor indeed stupid - though I accept those types may be over-represented by Reform. I agree with some others that you can't just dismiss the feelings of 4 million people who have been moved to vote for a far right party. Perhaps they see it as a protest vote against the mainstream parties. Perhaps, in a similar way to Brexit, they truly believe that uncontrolled immigration is the root of all their problems. They wouldn't be the first in history to have their heads turned by a charismatic leader telling them there's only one way to put things right.

I believe that Nigel Farage/ Reform is absolutely ad abhorrent and odious as you say they are. But the only way we can make 4 million people (well, the ones that aren't racist and/ or stupid) understand the threat from the far right is to engage them in constructive discussion and by creating a political environment on both sides of the political fence that is about cohesion, unification and collaboration.

Oh it’s ok, this poster is (pseudo) Lib Dem which apparently makes her more highly educated and accepting (as long as you think like her) than the rest of us.

There is no quick solution to any of the issues faced by the U.K. Farage gets votes by pretending there is - if he were in power and failed then he’d blame someone else or some other country.
Regarding small boats, I would prefer a party that gets asylum applications processed rather than either sticking folk in hotels or ignoring the backlog - and much rather that than declaring war on France by towing them back there or tipping human beings into the sea. We should remember that a number of people in hotels are from Afghanistan whom we promised to resettle because they fought alongside us - most of these were flown in by the RAF - what’s the solution for that?
Regarding legal migration I am happy enough that students pay incredibly high fees to help maintain our universities and workers are filling shortage areas where employer can’t fill role from inside U.K. and also pay for privilege. Happy enough neither route is taking them to settlement, and is paid for including NHS use additional fee, and happy enough they can’t bring their mum on these visas - all of this is already in place and perhaps needs better administration rather than just stopping and crashing our services and economy. Seems reasonable that to reduce this, if desired, is addressed by upskilling at home, and making occupations such as care more viable in terms of wages and conditions. We perhaps also would have had less of a problem if we were still in EU with free movement where people could come and go more easily to do short term work in shortage areas, and/or recognised and addressed this issue that was ignored by leavers prior to exiting the EU.
I think NHS needs looking at - the only way to get waiting lists to zero is to turn it private overnight- not practical and very costly for all both financially and in health terms. Farage would choose US style.
Farage is selling a ‘vibe/dream’ and can’t deliver any of these most desired policies - definitely not overnight and legally and definitely not to the benefit of most of the U.K. - maybe the other parties won’t but at least their solutions are potentially workable and humane.
I see Farage has already outlined that he will need to be on the national stage as leader rather than hanging around Clacton - less than a day to more or less say he won’t be doing the actual job he got in Clacton - why do we think he’d do his job if in power?
Edited to correct some dreadful typos.

I am not a reform voter either, but this is what happens when valid concerns over immigration get swept under the carpet and nobody listens.

I think there is a lot of naivety on this thread about what Farage and his cronies really stand for.

Farage is not a 'straight talking', anti establishment man who genuinely wants to address illegal immigration to improve the lives of working class people.

Farage is a wealthy man with racist, xenophobic and sexist views with some questionable backers and alliances to other countries who does not give a damn about other people.

This is a man who thinks Trump and Andrew Tate have something worthy to say.

Reform's hatred of immigrants/non white does not stop at those who come here illegally. It extends to British people who are not white and immigrants who are here perfectly legally.

It must be absolutely awful and worrying for people from non-white backgrounds in this country to wake up on Friday and find out that millions of people voted for this party.

We should not show any complacency when parties embrace extremist views.

You don't turn a blind eye to dangerous people with dangerous, divisive ideology. This is not what democracy is about.

Do you think that Trump or Farage care about democracy?

The media have a lot to answer for because so many outlets have constantly platformed Farage but failed to call him and his candidates on their dodgy views...

Just like Brexit was a disaster, and Farage was one of the main reasons why this disaster happened, no good can come from Reform.

Most decent people can see that and should not remain silent.

@TroysMammy I'll volunteer in the community on my 8th day of the week because I'm busy the other 7 working full time and running a house whilst raising a family. So fucking patronising, it's people like you that will make sure Reform do well.