To hope all the reform voters take a hard look in the mirror?

[Tukmgru]

I have to wonder how you live with yourselves. It’s like you know you’re awful people, not just filled with spite and hate but also motivated by it. I genuinely am so baffled how you can sit here on this forum that is largely about supporting others through difficult times - perhaps you’ve found help and comfort in the various threads MN has to offer, and then you go ‘yep, fuck everyone else’.

My aunt was a BNP and then UKIP supporter, and a grifter par excellence throughout her life, and all of her arguments were the same as the arguments I’ve seen on here by Reform voters here. 4 million people went out there to declare ‘I’m a complete dickhead to everyone around me but want everyone to hand everything to me on a spoon’

Just fuck off.

(I’m not even a labour or green or whatever voter, I just think you’re awful people and deserve nothing but contempt)

Agree with this. Your post illustrates perfectly why many did vote Reform.
Righteous, self-congratulary, smug and faux naivety. The full set.

Are you telling them to be kind?

People voted for Reform because they didn’t want to vote Labour and they wanted the Tories out. It says a lot about people not really wanting Labour to run the country.

It was Hilary Clinton calling millions of people deplorables that cost her the election.

I know people who voted reform. They are intelligent, kind, hard working people. Some are woman who are concerned about woman’s rights Instead of insulting them - find out why they voted that way. What is it that speaks to them? If we could have a conversation as opposed to slinging insults we might all get somewhere.

(for the record - I did not vote reform)

Perhaps the poster doesn’t have time to volunteer working long hours in minimum wage to live in a bed sit. Again volunteering is traditionally a very middle class activity for those that have the time and the means.

Sweden is not exactly immune from anti-immigration sentiments. A huge increase in gun crime since levels of immigration soared is a big cause of concern.

I have a close Swedish friend in Stockholm - she lived in the U.K. for over 20 years. Other things she’s told me that may come as a surprise to many, is that with very few exceptions, there is a charge for GP visits, ditto for visits to A&E, and there’s a charge for the ‘board’ element of hospital stays. Plus nearly everyone pays something for prescriptions - even her dad of over 90 did, and he was not well off.
The charges are all relatively small, but the U.K. model of ‘free at the point of use’ does not exist in what is popularly supposed to be a socialist Utopia.

If we’re sleepwalking into fascism it is in part due to the holier than thou attitude of the left. The constant insults and lack of discussion have contributed to this.

If we had a government and opposition that weren’t incompetent the hard discussions would have been had.

In some areas of the country immigration is a problem, but no one can talk about it or they’re immediately called racist. This has paved the way for Farage to come in, and he has appealed to Tory voters who are jaded (understandably) by the state of Conservatives but can’t bring themselves (also understandably) to vote for Labour.

Farage has been able to take advantage of the lack of discussion to talk clearly about three big things - the NHS (as it stands it cannot continue much longer, and a French style private system seems inevitable), women’s rights (other parties cannot say what a woman is, Tories can but have fudged the issue for over a decade), and immigration (remember the Rotherham scandal?). If other parties had given air time to these issues maybe Reform wouldn’t have had the opportunity to get on the ladder.

Unless Labour magically starts discussing these things I predict that by the next election either Reform will have a much bigger following, and/or conservatives will move harder right to meet them. I can’t see Labour being anything other than disastrous after a brief respite and that will contribute to a harder right trajectory.

Before Brexit (another holier than thou shitshow) I read an article showing how history repeats itself, and it basically predicted what’s happening now, and that for the most part humans are too tribal and closed minded to make the changes to stop it.

I’ve always considered myself a lefty, but Labour and the sanctimonious behaviour of their supporters have lost me this time. I’m now genuinely politically homeless.

"4 million people went out there to declare ‘I’m a complete dickhead to everyone around me"

Tbf the votes are confidential, so unless they told people who they voted for, or the truth, no one would know.

E.g. my close pal voted Reform, so she tells me, but she's telling everyone else she voted Labour 🤷‍♀️

There does need to be accountability for people's decisions. Calling Reform racist is a fair criticism- everything they do is to stop immigrants, but the focus is mainly on Muslim immigrants.
Their plans were to shoot the boats/not rescue them/send them back to France (which they can't do anyway). So basically, unless we kill them, no answers.
They promised everything- free tuition, pay rises - it only takes a step in thinking to say how will they pay for this. One more step to listen to NF who said he wants to privatise the NHS. He knows those voting for him generally will not look this far into things, but these are most likely the people who can least afford to pay for NHS.
Another example would be look at NF's friends, do we really want to be Trumps friend, do we want to be Russia's friend?
So whilst 'people are thick' who vote Reform isn't always the case, I struggle to understand if people know this information and still vote or if they don't look behind the headline then that will suggest a level of ignorance. Similarly I would say not all people who voted reform are racist, but I imagine that all racists would find their home as Reform.
Be careful about protest votes, that's how we ended up with the utter shambles of Brexit!

This! I've lived with uncontrolled immigration and like a pp got pushed out of my local community. Everywhere I went - the local shops, buses, GP waiting room, I never got chatting to anyone, never had the feeling of being part of a community because I was surrounded by non English speakers.
It was fucking miserable and we eventually decided to move. I voted Reform and won't be fucking off anywhere. I'm entitled to my opinion.

I agree but don't underestimate the enormous power of the right wing press in this country. They really are very successful at brainwashing those who live in areas of deprivation.

What a surprise. No response from OP!

it’s easier to point the finger than to take responsibility for the fact you haven’t got the life you think you should have

Well, yes, when it's the governments fault they don't have the life they should have. Not everyone has the privilege required to lift themselves out of poverty when standards of living in every single area has been destroyed by the government.

There's a lot of people in my area who feel that stationing boats in the channel to turn back small boats would be an excellent solution. There's only a certain number of beaches that they can launch from and land on, so theoretically it wouldn't be that hard to police those beaches.

Yes, this.
And one saying it right now.
Took a look into the mirror - yes, it's still me.
😁

Excuse me? Who am I looking down on?

On top of that Farage is an excellent public speaker let’s be honest - he was much better than any of the others at the election debate and is always clear, calm and confident during interviews. I can totally see why people would vote for him.

Indeed, but I can think of a few 'great public speakers' that had awful policies. I agree, he is much nicer to listen to than most politician. He seems to answer the question being asked, for one. But again, it seems people forget the history because that doesn't mean anything if the actual party is a racist, and openly misogynistic.

You think Farage and his lot care about women's rights? Seriously??

Still a racist then?

While I fundamentally disagree with their politics, they’re just Tory lite supporters so I’m not sure how they can be declared the most despicable when we’ve just got rid of a government that’s wrecked more havoc on this country than any other. Really I think conservative voters have more to answer for than any other political party voters. And I say that as someone that is not a voter of any main political party,

Reform is the reason we can't have proportional representation to prevent another Hitler which is what Nigel is.

Those who voted reform don't want to blame themselves for their problems rather the people fleeing absolute poverty. The only change in my eyes needed is the ability for them to work immediately whilst their claim is being investigated so they can integrate quicker. The majority near us work cash in hand and are exploited by that, it's them I feel sorry for.

There is a reason the Lib Dem's have the most educated vote and exist in middle class areas.

Hitler was a fantastic public speaker. Very rousing.

His book was shit though.

Nobody tactical voted for Reform 🙄

I wouldn’t vote Reform. But, then again , I would never have voted for Jeremy Corbyn or his gang - I don’t like extremes.

But, I didn’t and wouldn’t, run around calling those that did stupid/ignorant etc.

We all vote for who we think will serve us and the country best.🤷‍♀️

Don't be so ridiculous. "Volunteering is traditionally for the middle classes with time and means". So you're saying the working classes just sit on their bums waiting for Lady Bountiful to hand out food packages?

This! I've lived with uncontrolled immigration and like a pp got pushed out of my local community.Everywhere I went - the local shops, buses, GP waiting room, I never got chatting to anyone, never had the feeling of being part of a community because I was surrounded by non English speakers.
It was fucking miserable and we eventually decided to move. I voted Reform and won't be fucking off anywhere. I'm entitled to my opinion.

Any chance you're from LU1/LU2? if so, it's all very true. Lots of people not speaking English and culturally segregated. You walk through the town centre and it's actually a surprise to see a white person (disclaimer, I'm not a white British person but I see how much of a shock that must be compared to 30 years ago)

But I still wouldn't vote Reform because of the wider picture.