I can't really go back to work with H attitude

[icantfuckingwin]

Two kids- 4 and 2.

H trying to build an empire and make it big. Self employed business. Requires A LOT of hours out of the house. I do not wish to disclose the type of business it is. But it's not work from home.

He leaves at 6 and comes back at 8:30-9 pm. The commute is around 1:15-1:30 minutes.

He's been putting a lot into it for many years and is on the brink of a possible investment, let's say. To enlarge business.

I've also had quite a successful career. I went back to work after both babies. I also manage everything home related, as I've always worked from home, there was just more time for me to do it.

For the last year I held a senior position, on a pretty big salary. Not humble bragging. But I suffered from absolute burn out. I could no longer maintain everything. I was doing all night wakings, all mornings, all drop offs and all pick ups, plus dinner time and bed time alone. My kids school is also an hour round trip because of traffic. I did have the help of a cleaner and spent money on convenience foods and take aways too often, but was really trying to just get through the days somehow. We had a nanny for a while before my youngest went to nursery and she'd fill in if I had work trips abroad etc. anyway my H all the while always complaining how much money we spent on outsourcing and making me feel guilty about it.

So we recently started discussing my return to work and what was going to change. To which he said, well we can't spend that much money on outsourcing stuff- otherwise it won't be worth you working. We will be paying more to outsource than you'll be earning. This is because I suggested we have a housekeeper a few times a week, rather than a cleaner once a week, to make things easier on me. He said I never think about the finances and only about getting more and more help in.

This was part of the reason I left my job too, as I was made to feel guilty for needing help.

He essentially wants a wife who works full time on a big salary and takes care of all the home and childcare stuff with no help ( aside from nursery ) while he goes off to build his empire.

And I know what he'll say, he'll say I never supported him and he did it all alone. He already thinks that. Because I couldn't handle ' my lot '. When I was working and caused him a headache by complaining about it all.

I am sad but I don't think I can go back to work under these circumstances. He still does not get it and he'll begrudge the money we will need to speak to pick up his side of the equation.

OP as a lone parent and a woman who is senior at work I can tell you life is a lot easier without this kind of man it in.

If you divorce him you will not be able run your house without a job and you will not have a pension.

Tell him that being financially independent is an important example to your DC.

And that by securing a decent pension you are actually considering the long term financial for both of you.

Can't ague with that.

How many times do people have to tell you, and in how many different ways, you can't get through to him.

This is your option www.gov.uk/divorce/file-for-divorce

I'm just trying to find ammunition to finally get him to change / understand where I'm coming from. He doesn't with how I communicate with him. He says I'm nagging / tells me to shut up/ says I'm hysterical/ he doesn't need this ' shit ' from me, with everything else he has on his plate etc etc.

OK, here it is plainly. You will never 'find ammunition to get him to change' because he does not value you and he does not think he needs to change. Not even deep down in the deepest recesses of his brain is there one iota of space saying "Maybe she's got a point". And a person who does not value someone will never listen to them. Your 'ammunition' would be nothing but a series of damp squibs, they would do nothing to convince him. My dear, you could walk in the door carrying stone tablets from Mt Sinai and he still will not listen. He never will listen. He can hear nothing but his own words because yours are nothing but useless noise to him.

You're doing what I used to do, thinking that 'if I can just find the right words' some magic fairy would bonk my ex on the head and he'd say "Of course you're right, how blind I've been" but it will never happen. Because his only concern is himself and what he wants. You are nothing to him but an adjunct to his magnificence. And an inconvenient one at that, because you will not shut up and leave him to himself with his 'empire building'.

I hope that's plain enough for you because you really need to understand that your efforts are futile. Your choice is to either stay in your misery (working or not) or get the hell out and build a solid life for you and your children. I know what I'd choose.

I just can't get through to him and sorry but he makes me doubt myself all the time

Of course it makes you doubt yourself!!! What do you think his intention is in the first place? It's certainly not to reinforce the fact that you are right!

I'm sorry if I sound harsh. But you really need a wake up call and to face reality.

He is never going to listen because it doesn't suit his agenda. He's doing want you working. He wants you at home. He want you to toe the line so he can focus on building his business. He doesn't want to be involved in parenting or mundane household tasks. He wants you to do that at the detriment to your career, mental health, self worth, financial security and pension. He thinks you should sacrifice everything for his success. Trust me it's a very bad idea.

Are you a share holder if the business? Do you have any ownership of it?

I understand people telling you to leave but I know it's just not that easy. However, I think he may leave you no option. The problem is, the longer you leave it and stay out of the workplace, you'll be less employable, you'll de-skill, you'll lose confidence and more financially vulnerable. All of that will make it even harder to leave later on.

Please contact Women's aid.
She shouts you down and belittles you, this is verbal abuse.

You need to wake up to this and seek help.
Stop trying to reason with a completely unreasonable abusive man.
You are wasting time and energy you do not have.

When he talks about frittering away. You tell him the money is being frittered away because he isn't doing anything for the home or DC. That frittering is outsourcing what he should be doing so his choice is to carry on as he is and outsourcing his share or stepping back and contributing as much as expects you to.

The parallel and irony here is that dozens of wise women have all said the same thing, using different words, and it seems none of them have quite managed to be the right words, so you can see and understand that your husband is abusive and is deliberately not understanding what you say, to keep you at home, barefoot and chained to the kitchen sink.
what do we all have to say to get you to see what you are describing ?

Hark at the absolutely hilarious level of hypocrisy of a man who accuses his wife of outsourcing too much, whilst simultaneously outsourcing his entire domestic and parenting load to said wife. What a tosser.

Did I understand you correctly that his response to a two year old child vomiting on the middle of the night was to get up and shut the bedroom door!? He is an abusive wanker, a terrible husband and a neglectful father.

You will never be able to have the marriage and family life that you want with him because he is a narcissistic prick - you're quite right that he sees you (and the children) as bit part players in his life, in which he is the only important person. You are not to complain, or have any needs, or make ANY demands on him, or have any opinions of your own or (heaven forfend) disagree with him about anything. You are to make him look good and facilitate his life.

I'm sorry, OP. This is not how decent men behave towards those they are supposed to love. Not all men are like this, it's not normal.

OP, my DH is very strong-willed and tried to shut me down and make excuses for why he should live life entirely on his terms. And it worked for years. Though I would push back, it was exhausting and often didn't work, and I would acquiesce for a quiet life.

Then after nearly 20 years together I realised my life was being run entirely on his terms. We never went anywhere or did anything. He did precisely what he wanted when he wanted and left me with every increasing swathes of responsibility. I got to the point where I wasn't sleeping, depressed and so on, and then I decided I'd had enough (I read this article on covert emotional abuse and realised he ticked all the boxes: https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/memberarticles/the-insidious-damage-caused-by-covert-emotional-abuse)

I told him I wanted a divorce. He very much doesn't want to get divorced because reasons. So I laid out the conditions for me staying married to him. Once he realised I was absolutely serious, he miraculously found he could live life more on my terms after all. You just have to make it really, really clear you won't take his shit, his gaslighting, minimising, dismissiveness and spurious excuses. You have to be prepared to have the mother of all arguments with him and refuse to back down. And in the end, you have to be prepared to divorce him if he doesn't change.

He doesn’t need to change. You do. You don’t need his permission. He wouldn’t ask for yours.

You are never going to win an argument with him - words don't carry any weight when things that he sees as being wife-work are being outsourced, you just won't.

You have two options from what I can see. You either go on strike and don't lift a finger around the house so you'll only tend to you and the kids - do absolutely ZERO for him and you're doing this with a view that you can rescue your relationship. Or you can get your ducks in a row, get a good divorce solicitor and also find somewhere that you can afford to rent and you and the kids move out. Lock, stock and barrel. You leave him to fend for himself. Cut all ties. You'll have to be strong here as he will try to win you back with this one but you know that you must go to work (if for no other reason than you need it for your own personal mental well being, that is usually enough but not in this case). Then what ever you spend your money on is absolutely none of his business.

OP, you will never change him and he will never "hear" your point. You need to understand one thing. He already sees the situation perfectly well, he sees your pain, your struggles and your unhappiness, and he is fine with it. He is fine with it. It suits him. He doesn't care about you or your well being and happiness.

You need to leave. If his goal to provide for his kids - fine, he can still provide for them when you are separated. But you only have one life, and you are wasting it on being a support system to someone who doesn't even love you and looks down on you. Get a grip, please.

Agree he doesn’t want to hear about it. He knows but doesn’t care. There is no respect for you whatsoever.

Get all the financial evidence you can because when you eventually get fed up and split, he’ll hide his money in his company and you won’t get a fair deal.

As pp said, he can provide for his kids when you split.

Do you think regardless of what happens I should push to be a shareholder in all the companies he has ?

I'll be blunt - your husband is a selfish tw*t and he appears to have a marriage of convenience - his convenience 😡
With your earnings potential nothing should be preventing you from hiring your own cleaner/childcare, whatever. If he moans about it, tell him he needs to be at home more himself instead of expecting you to do it all, or better still, he pays for help around the home. It's his home as well!
To be honest in your shoes, I would be wondering if I wanted the marriage any more.

You have I'm sure mad all the sacrifices so far to your career, body, sleep, self care arranged all the childcare, household duties and done everything and he has done what exactly? Focused on his career and his business. And you are the one being unreasonable here???!!!
I don't BLOODY think so!!!

Go back to work. Divide the chores evenly. If you choose to hire help for your portion do so. How he accomplishes his portion of tasks is not your problem. He needs to
provide as much support to you as you do to him.

OP, he's not going to change. You need to say that if he doesn't change his attitude to a sexist man from the 19th century, you're leaving.

And then if he doesn't start doing half of all the childcare, you leave and say you'll do 50/50 custody.

That's literally all you can do. You can't make him become a reasonable human. And you don't have to

He will never listen or change because he has it too good. Why would he bother listening to you when at the moment he gets to work and do absolutely nothing else? You are his skivvy- not his partner.
You will end up leaving him. Please do it before you’ve been left behind in your career and have become financially dependent on him.

My harsh truth is - if he's been working for many years and excessively long hours, and he's only approaching readiness for investment, his business is not functional.

I'm speaking as the partner of someone who's run several businesses, some which have gone under and some which have exited with a good profit.

If something isn't working in a business, it's better to fail quickly, admit it and move on.

There is no situation that it's reasonable for your dp to ignore his family responsibilities. He needs to do half. And, it's in the clear best interests of your family for you to go back to your stable and dependable income.

Outsource as you need to and don’t feel bad about it. You’re outsourcing for both of you. He doesn't want to be a housekeeper or do full time childcare either so why should you. Explain it to him slowly until he understands ;)

I'd gently point out that you are practically a single parent. If you were to split you'd actually get some free time as he would have to do his share when it was his turn to have the kids. Plus you wouldn't have him making you feel less than

Why are you with him?

Fabulous post! Frankly thats it in a nutshell.
Im sorry OP but you cant change your DH,
If you have the opportunity to have a high salary you have options, dont give it all up for a DH who seemingly doesnt respect or value you.
It shouldnt be seen as a case that all childcare/ cleaner/outsourcing costs come out of your salary, it should be coming out of joint household income which should be looked at as an overall household income versus outgoings.
The outsourcing benefits him as much as you, its not your sole responsibility to run the house and be responsible for childcare, you would probably be better off as a single parent.
You need to start kicking back and and if that doesnt work seriously consider your marriage and I know thats so much easier said than done. Its not easy when your self worth has been eroded and you start to question your sanity. Perhaps counselling would help.

He’s extremely selfish and places himself and his career above you and your family, so yes you need to financially protect yourself.
what you described sounds like hell, you would be better off alone as you are solo parenting already and getting useless feedback about the choices you make to facilitate this .
he needs to change his attitude as nobody should put up with that crap. Who does he think he is??? What a gem you got there