I can't really go back to work with H attitude

[icantfuckingwin]

Two kids- 4 and 2.

H trying to build an empire and make it big. Self employed business. Requires A LOT of hours out of the house. I do not wish to disclose the type of business it is. But it's not work from home.

He leaves at 6 and comes back at 8:30-9 pm. The commute is around 1:15-1:30 minutes.

He's been putting a lot into it for many years and is on the brink of a possible investment, let's say. To enlarge business.

I've also had quite a successful career. I went back to work after both babies. I also manage everything home related, as I've always worked from home, there was just more time for me to do it.

For the last year I held a senior position, on a pretty big salary. Not humble bragging. But I suffered from absolute burn out. I could no longer maintain everything. I was doing all night wakings, all mornings, all drop offs and all pick ups, plus dinner time and bed time alone. My kids school is also an hour round trip because of traffic. I did have the help of a cleaner and spent money on convenience foods and take aways too often, but was really trying to just get through the days somehow. We had a nanny for a while before my youngest went to nursery and she'd fill in if I had work trips abroad etc. anyway my H all the while always complaining how much money we spent on outsourcing and making me feel guilty about it.

So we recently started discussing my return to work and what was going to change. To which he said, well we can't spend that much money on outsourcing stuff- otherwise it won't be worth you working. We will be paying more to outsource than you'll be earning. This is because I suggested we have a housekeeper a few times a week, rather than a cleaner once a week, to make things easier on me. He said I never think about the finances and only about getting more and more help in.

This was part of the reason I left my job too, as I was made to feel guilty for needing help.

He essentially wants a wife who works full time on a big salary and takes care of all the home and childcare stuff with no help ( aside from nursery ) while he goes off to build his empire.

And I know what he'll say, he'll say I never supported him and he did it all alone. He already thinks that. Because I couldn't handle ' my lot '. When I was working and caused him a headache by complaining about it all.

I am sad but I don't think I can go back to work under these circumstances. He still does not get it and he'll begrudge the money we will need to speak to pick up his side of the equation.

I also think if his thing does take off big time, he'll not give any credit to me for having his back for years. He'll say ( he already says ) he did it with no one's support. When I say I support him he scoffs. He doesn't think I support him because I complain. He sees me as a problem, not a wife that supports him the way he wants. That's how it feels anyway.

"He's always talking about really successful people who've built successful companies and how they need to have tunnel vision and I just don't get it apparently"

so he has a vision for his business.
What is his vision for the family?

It sounds like he’s got one foot out of the door already OP.

OP, honestly. Do what you need to do. But please, please don't give up on your career. Time and time again we see men building their "empires" on the backs of their wives who give up everything to support them. And hardly any of these man are grateful to their wives - mainly the opposite. In many cases, the wives are discarded in their old age with no means to earn anything, or treated like skivvies and looked down upon and sneered at by both the husband and the kids. They get no respect and no appreciation.

Do whatever's best for you. Do whatever you want. You have your own life, you are not a support mechanism for your husband. Tell him you are doing what you want to do and that's it. Your kids will grow up fast but the years lost budling up your career will not be regained.

Honestly he is his own team and you are yours.
he doesn’t give a shit.
the fact he even wants to fight you on outsourcing tells you a lot.

you are right you “can’t win” because you can’t make him care, you can’t make him change.

it sounds really sad but he really doesn’t sound like he cares for or respects you.

all marriages go through hard times, lord knows I’ve been tested post kids but my DH and I l, once we have had a breather and calmed down can see the other persons pov and we want us both to be happy and so we meet halfway (that’s 50/50, 60/40 hell it’s as crap as 80/20 sometimes but we both compromise.

if you stay together you need to sort out you and the kids and let him sort out his own dinner/ laundry / appointments/ whatever

Your husband is clear.
He wants it so you do 100 all day every day. He is not willing to move from 0.
Very very few people could live with that or make it work.

Do you think you want to stay like this for the next 5, 10, 20 years…?

op I’m so sorry this sounds really hard. I can’t believe he doesn’t like you outsourcing things but won’t even iron his own shirts!

Like you say something needs to change. It’s awful that he’s watched you have a breakdown and then expects you to go back to how it was when your burnout was triggered.

would a third party like a marriage counsellor help?

Then my two year old started vomiting in the middle of the night. H got up and closed his bedroom door and that was it.

I can't imagine a decent father or partner not being concerned about this and shutting the door to sleep in another room.

He's working today and I've always understood that and won't bother him at night, ever. Ever since they were babies.

Millions of working parents deal with night wakings and I don't think a man should get out of this just because he is working. Of course he feels so little responsibility towards his own dc, he's never had to take any. And he has no clue why you can't manage it all. I don't know why women enable their partner opting out of nighttime parenting. Anyone who has a dc is signing up for everything that parenting entails.

To be entirely fair, dh's career was based on his intellectual sharpness and clarity of response. When he was in the middle of a big case, sleeping probably from midnight until 5am, I'd have totally protected that time for him. After one particularly horrific night, in the middle of a difficult case, he booked into an hotel the following night. He did that during big cases until the youngest was about five after that. Rightly so too, he couldn't risk losing because his train of thought was muzzy.

I suspect, however, that isn't the case for the op's dh, but felt it needed to be said that there are circumstances when an individuals needs to safeguard sleep/rest during pinch points.

@icantfuckingwin

Bottom line is, it's not about you working, it's not about who does what in the house or with the children. The bottom line is that he does not respect you nor does he respect the role of a woman, any woman, in the home. It doesn't matter if you're a SAHM, it doesn't matter if you are the Prime Minister. He doesn't respect women, he doesn't respect you. The only value he places on anything is strictly on himself, and on his 'empire'. That will always come first, and you will be a sorry, sorry second.

So, you want to give your children 'the best of everything'? Fine, but you can do that as co-parents. Private school? Split the cost. Riding lessons and trips to Disney? Split the cost. Or perhaps, when you've been back in the workforce awhile you'll be able to do these things on your own, because he won't be there controlling and criticizing your every move, and I daresay, controlling your finances.

In reality like most misogynists, deep down he's a scared little boy afraid of the power of women. That's why he needs to keep you in a position where he feels superior and where he can control your life. Don't let him do that to you. Be Free.

The outsourcing does not have to, nor should it, come entirely from YOUR earnings. He should pay for at least half of it and you say he is earning lots, so make him do that . He may think what he is earning all has to be ploughed back into the business, to help it grow, but it doesn't- he has a responsibility to his family, as well as to the business. As others have said, if you were to leave him, he'd have to work less and spend more time at home.

This kind of man is not a reliable bet long term. I really think you need to go back to work and preserve your financial independence even if the money feels spent right away on childcare and outsourcing.

This is because whether you leave paid work or not he will not recognize your contributions. Hos business msy make it or may fail. If he makes it big he thinks you have not contributed no matter what you do. If he fails he will be enraged at you for quitting your job or for becoming the prime earner.

You need either very successful couples counseling to give his head a whack (which it won’t do) or you need to toughen up snd go back to work.

I would never risk being solely supported by such an ungenerous man. They can’t help but take their problems out on you and the children in the end. Before walking out on you after success.

Why are you not divorcing? you say you are sick.

Although this might be well intentioned it comes across self-righteous.
You really need to have a better imagination and understanding of people.
I also had a cleaner, made it clear i had zero interest in housework etc pre kids and that was fine with exhusband.
But when you have children people can change and there was zero warning before. We would have agreed on goals etc.
I would not assume people haven't done this. They are not as naive as you seem to think and its more complex than you think.

@Saturday12345 I had no intention to be self-righteous. Just as I suspect you had no intention to be so rude.

I have approached the situation from my perspective and looking back on 33 years of marriage. DH and I entered marriage with clear intentions. Had he turned into an arsehole and started to behave badly and disrespectfully, I am very sure that I'd have left him. I would not have tolerated someone who reneged.

curating conversations restricted to their dc, interior design, holidays and tennis

This is interesting because I don't know anyone who's ever wanted to talk to me about my work or their work much...

Generally these are convos people have around me, working or not working. Maybe add a bit of politics / music interests / family stuff to the mix, but that's about all people talk about.

I certainly never spoke to anyone about my work because they don't care and no one speaks to me much about theirs either. Just an observation. I don't feel like I'm less interesting because I haven't worked in a couple of months. It may be different in 10 years of whatever ( which I don't intend to do ) but from what I see, people don't talk much about their work.

You know what, I agree with you @Saturday12345 . And I speak as a person with strongest boundaries and can be self-righteous (based on reality). However, my heart broke a little when Op herself stated she had all this in place pre kids and still doesn't iron etc etc but now she has kids and family to consider. OP didn't bargain for things turning out this badly!

What I will add, and have mentioned here before, is 'society'. I consider myself to be extremely lucky as I come from a very good family. In addition, as a young adult, my friends were older and were kind enough to be brutally honest about their marriages with me. They even liked to joke that: the fairytale books should end with: 'and they lived unhappily ever after. Equally those with good marriages shared. But those with seemingly god marriages where also honest to confess it wasn't all it cracked up to be.

Other role models emphasised the element of luck in choosing a good spouse and hope it turns out to be the case. Many many people make out they were cleverer in their choices when in many cases there is a strong element of luck.

Armed with that knowledge as a young adult, I put my ducks in a row: my independence (career, I have a profession I can pause and get back on it without problems), financial independence- yes, world my butts off to earn enough and invest whilst others were living it up in Ibiza; and then put in place the won't cook, won't iron ( a clever lady who was a pro at dating and married, warned me that with some men, the more you do at the start, the more they expect: so what she advised was to cook for them as a surprise so they appreciate it. When we got married and I was still adjusting I was clear to my DH when he mentioned cooking: I said I would hire someone 2/3 times a week (my share) and pay them myself. ironing- same; He does his ironing or I send it away and he pays.) He soon got the message and he cooks beautifully anyway and only eats one meal a day and likes to use air fryer.

With kids, I knew if things got tough, I would sell one of my investment properties whilst raising the kids which I knew would last 4/5 years of my contribution. I also have a family who I knew would drop anything so I didn't get 'sick' or become 'broken'. My those 2 things were my plan B as I had made it clear in my head that, I was never going to rely on another person (yes, spouse or so) for decisions that affected my health. My health has always been non-negotiable. I am also independently wealthy, have seen that divorce doesn't mean failure and I knew my family would support me 100%, so all that gave me confidence before any problems, that I could walk any day. Yup, my DH knows very well I can walk any day.

As luck would have it, DH turned out to be supportive, does even more than I do (70% across the board as he enjoys it too and accepts his parenting duties); he doesn't mind if I work on not- so my choice- and he insists on covering for the whole family; yet, he is also running a business that he hopes to turn into an empire but had good work life balance and pays staff.

My point being, at this stage OP, as one poster posted, workout what's good for you long term. Start drowning out (not paying attention to his put downs) his negativity and crack on doing what needs to be done. Trust me, when you pulled back some control from him, he will/ might just start to respect you. Yes, when Dh reaches milestones in business, he acknowledges that it was team effort- I am good as a sounding board and some items relate to my profession so I can comment- I am however touched he acknowledges that, even to his family, so I know he will say it when he makes it big.

My other questions to @icantfuckingwin were: Are you even intimate- I cannot think of m=wanting to be intimate with someon who thinks so lowly of me. 2> Do you think he loves being in the marriage as you do everything for him and you provide him with a ready made home or is he checking out as one poster feared? If he loves the set up and you know he won't give it up easily, then more reasons to put your foot down and start drowning his negativity away- you will at least not feel sick.

I am sorry you tried to put boundaries in place and once you got kids, (still babies I must say), it turned to this. You have 100% of my sympathy. This could easily be anyone of us. Good luck. Maybe speak to a therapist to workout what you want to do with your life. Good luck. I don't envy you.

Even if it were true that working cost you more money in support than you earn, it would still be worth working. Because it increases your earning power and your employability, builds a pension fund, is good for your self-esteem, etc. And the costs will decrease as the children grow older.

Thing is, the support (nanny/cleaners/dog walkers/ wrap around care/whatever) is not for YOU. It is for you and for him. Equally. As you both work FT (or in your case, have done and will do).

But he has twisted this argument around so that you now believe that YOU need support to continue working, and that he does not. Because he thinks keeping the house clean and cooking and shopping and school runs and night wakings are your job. And you are lazy or inadequate for needing help with that.

In short: your dh is a misogynist twat.

Now, what you do with that fact is up to you. But you feeling unwell mentally and physically is likely a direct response to living with someone who sees you as less important, less worthy, less human than he is. And knowing that he thinks that because you are a woman. It is so unfair and so unkind and so dismissive that it must make your head explode.

I would also feel sick. Anyone would.

And that's coming from your life partner. What a knife through the heart that is.

Go back to work FT, OP. Pursue your career with passion. Hire whatever support you need. Enjoy your dc when you have time in the evenings or on weekends.

I hope that you feel stronger and more positive soon.

I think @hellebore and @vision both speak wisdom.

OP, he couldn't care less about you.
You have to stop trying to convince him of anything. You just TELL him it's happening.
Your marriage is over, dead, finished.
I can't understand how you don't get that.
You need to 100% focus on your health, getting well, getting back to taking back control of your life.
You need to be able to look after yourself and your children, he has zero intention of doing either.
You have to find excellent legal representation so you can take every penny you can.
He won't want your children more than every couple of weeks for an hour.
Talk to your GP, tell the truth. Use tge word coercive control, because that is what he is doing....driving you into the ground.
Reach out to Women's aid for advice and support.
Keep posting.
Stop trying to change his mindset.
Focus your energy on getting what you want and getting well.

He's always talking about really successful people who've built successful companies and how they need to have tunnel vision and I just don't get it apparently. I don't understand his business, any time I suggest he changes something there.

@icantfuckingwin Interesting. I’d repeat this comment about tunnel vision to him and ask him why on earth he had a family, as he needs to fully focus on building his business?

How can he be a husband and parent if he needs tunnel vision to that extent? How’s he going to bring up his children?

He doesn’t seem to understand that parents need to be involved in their children’s lives. If he doesn’t bother now, they’ll drift away from him.

If he isn't prepared to help with family life while he builds his empire and you are working full time, then the only way to survive is to outsource everything that you can. Why on earth should it all fall on you? Do what you need to protect your mental health, cos clearly he isn't going to.

So do you not rebut his comments re not outsourcing things and point out that isn’t actually your job to do all the cleaning, cooking and childcare on your own? What does he actually say to that?

The only alternative to him not pulling his weight (which couldn’t really fly with me as an option but that’s beside the point) is to hire help to pick up the slack. It’s not sustainable for you to work, do your bit with the kids and around the house and permanently pick up his bit too because he doesn’t give a shit about you or his kids.

If his business requires tunnel vision, why did he have a family? His answer can ONLY point to his thoughts about women, and it's not good.

It's a shame for you op, because you're not wanting to hear what everyone is saying, and the longer it takes you to realise it and be able to listen, the harder it will be to do what you need to do, and will eventually do. Keep this thread for when you're ready, and I hope for yours and your children's sake it is soon.

So do you not rebut his comments re not outsourcing things and point out that isn’t actually your job to do all the cleaning, cooking and childcare on your own? What does he actually say to that?

He sort of says, well then we can't to this or buy that or move to a bigger house, if we have to spend all our money on people helping us. I'm paying so much already, everything is so expensive etc etc etc. we won't have as much security, we won't be able to give our children money for houses when they're older. That's the kind of thing he says. He says he knows it's hard but that I should just do the absolute minimum to keep my career going and not stress about it as much as I do/ did.

So how about you do what he does around the home, and show him the reality of his bullshit views?