I can't really go back to work with H attitude

[icantfuckingwin]

Two kids- 4 and 2.

H trying to build an empire and make it big. Self employed business. Requires A LOT of hours out of the house. I do not wish to disclose the type of business it is. But it's not work from home.

He leaves at 6 and comes back at 8:30-9 pm. The commute is around 1:15-1:30 minutes.

He's been putting a lot into it for many years and is on the brink of a possible investment, let's say. To enlarge business.

I've also had quite a successful career. I went back to work after both babies. I also manage everything home related, as I've always worked from home, there was just more time for me to do it.

For the last year I held a senior position, on a pretty big salary. Not humble bragging. But I suffered from absolute burn out. I could no longer maintain everything. I was doing all night wakings, all mornings, all drop offs and all pick ups, plus dinner time and bed time alone. My kids school is also an hour round trip because of traffic. I did have the help of a cleaner and spent money on convenience foods and take aways too often, but was really trying to just get through the days somehow. We had a nanny for a while before my youngest went to nursery and she'd fill in if I had work trips abroad etc. anyway my H all the while always complaining how much money we spent on outsourcing and making me feel guilty about it.

So we recently started discussing my return to work and what was going to change. To which he said, well we can't spend that much money on outsourcing stuff- otherwise it won't be worth you working. We will be paying more to outsource than you'll be earning. This is because I suggested we have a housekeeper a few times a week, rather than a cleaner once a week, to make things easier on me. He said I never think about the finances and only about getting more and more help in.

This was part of the reason I left my job too, as I was made to feel guilty for needing help.

He essentially wants a wife who works full time on a big salary and takes care of all the home and childcare stuff with no help ( aside from nursery ) while he goes off to build his empire.

And I know what he'll say, he'll say I never supported him and he did it all alone. He already thinks that. Because I couldn't handle ' my lot '. When I was working and caused him a headache by complaining about it all.

I am sad but I don't think I can go back to work under these circumstances. He still does not get it and he'll begrudge the money we will need to speak to pick up his side of the equation.

Urgh I'd be inclined to not do any of his fucking laundry, cook any of his meals, or clean up any of his mess with that nasty attitude of his. Rather than doing the minimum for your career, you should just abscond yourself from looking after this child of a man.

If he gives a shit about the state of the house and the financials, then he'll have to learn to pick up his own share of chores/pay for the outsourcing himself.

This is so sad to read because he’s managed to convince you that it really is your job to deal with all of the household and family stuff, and that if the family dont have as much money as he’d like, that’s your fault too because somehow you can’t magically do absolutely fucking everything all by yourself.

He’s done an absolute number on you.

He sort of says, well then we can't to this or buy that or move to a bigger house, if we have to spend all our money on people helping us. I'm paying so much already, everything is so expensive etc etc etc. we won't have as much security, we won't be able to give our children money for houses when they're older. That's the kind of thing he says. He says he knows it's hard but that I should just do the absolute minimum to keep my career going and not stress about it as much as I do/ did.

But do you not point out that the alternative is that he needs to do the chore? If he doesn’t want to pay towards a cleaner, for too many takeaways etc the answer is for him to make dinner?

I did. I said, either you need to take a step back from work or we need to pay for it to be done and you can sort it being done and find the people to do it as well and it's your responsibly.

He said yeah but it's going to cost too much and you never think of finances enough etc. then I said, so what's the alternative, I do it ? It's not possible. He didn't come up with a solution.

@icantfuckingwin

He sort of says, well then we can't to this or buy that or move to a bigger house, if we have to spend all our money on people helping us. I'm paying so much already, everything is so expensive etc etc etc. we won't have as much security, we won't be able to give our children money for houses when they're older.

And I'd look him square in the eye and say "I'm good with not buying this or that and not moving to a bigger house right now and using that money for household help. Because with my increased earnings from building my career and when you've 'built that empire' that you're so sure of we'll be able to make up lost ground on putting money by for our future. And in the meantime we'll be equal partners in building our future, together".

See what Mr BigMan has to say about that.

Employ a childminder, y seem to be putting up barriers.

Yes that's what I said as it's the truth and the natural answer. He didn't really say much about it, other than it won't be possible to reach our goals if we keep flittering away our money.

‘Our goals’? Or more to the point his goals. Does he not realise that he will have no family to share the fruits of his labour with if he doesn’t nurture that part of his life? Honestly, I’d be very seriously thinking about divorce. It would be typical if you did all this sacrificing and raising a family like a single parent and then at the end he decided he wanted it all to himself as he’d ‘earned’ it all.

if you do consider divorce then for goodness sake make sure you know all about his financials in case he tries hiding things. A bit of forward planning would not go amiss just in case.

He sees money spent on family life as 'wasted'.
He sees money spent on what he classes women's work as 'frittering'.

Logic:
He doesn't feel responsibility for his children.

He thinks your true purpose is domestic & family maintenance.
He thinks domestic & family maintenance should be free.
He doesn't respect your career or care about your prospects.
He doesn't respect you as the human individual you are.

When you began this relationship, you were emphatic that you were not, and wouldn't be, a house-slave. It is clear that he disregarded your position on this, being sure that he'd be able to manoeuvre you into the role. And he has almost succeeded.

If you can't get him to review his self-appointed standing as lord of your domain, I'm afraid you must seriously review your commitment to this unequal marriage.

I think he quite wants me to go back, so he doesn't have to pay for everything.

Haha he says even though I look after house / laundry etc I do it badly anyway.

^^ Using money to control you.
^^ Negging you no matter what you do. Keeping you in your place. You will never meet his standards because the goal posts move in relation to your behaviour.

And so he doesn’t offer to iron his own shirts to save money? He doesn’t offer to downgrade his car?

Interesting that the financial sacrifices required are from your side.

OP, go back to work. Partly just to make sure you don't sacrifice your earnings to build his empire, but also so that you don't lose momentum in your career. Get the help you need and if he's annoyed then so be it. If he were sharing everything with you and you didn't want to work it might be a different conversation, but you want to work and it's better for you if you do, so it's a no-brainer.

Again @icantfuckingwin i refer you to my post saying he is one of those that wants it all but he only wants to work
why do you stay

It sounds to me that what’s yours is also his and what’s his is just his, if that makes sense? Do you have your own money in a personal bank account or equivalent (apologies if you’ve said this before and I’ve missed it)?

I’m also concerned that he sounds really dismissive and critical of your house work, has he always been this way? That would sure take a toll on my mental health if I was living with someone who didn’t value me or what I contributed to the relationship.

What was it that attracted you to him when you met?

Well if his goals include you working full time in a demanding, secure, high paid job and doing everything at home he can just fuck off.

You are not his amazon employee and he can start earning more to cover for his side of domestic work. I would push that.
It's been years,why he cannot cover for some wrap around care, cleaning etc.? These are not high paid jobs.
If he got such an empire surely few hours here and there are not a problem? Or he is incapable of delivering his job to a good standard and expects you to cover that?

Attack him the same way he attacks you.

And the fact that he refuses to acknowledge your points or discuss the issues and just says a blanket 'no' (which is what 'it won't be possible' actually means) shows that he has no intention of ever listening to you. Again, he doesn't consider you an equal. You're there to serve his needs and keep your mouth shut.

Is this the way you want to live the next 30/40/50 years of your life? Listen, I'm old and I've seen and done a lot. And I'm telling you that you only get one go round on this wonderful Earth of ours. Don't waste yours.

I realize that you may not be able to leave today, or even tomorrow. But you do need to seriously consider YOUR future and the future of your children. Is this really the relationship you want them to see and model when they come to adulthood? Is this the life you'd choose for your daughter? Is this the way you want your sons to treat their wives/partners? Children live what they learn. So think hard and make a plan for yourself. Go or stay, you have a lot to think about.

If he drives you to divorce how would he deal with 50/50 custody? He’d be paying half of the childcare then and expected to do drop offs/ pick ups and household cleaning or ironically buying that in. He’s very short-sighted.

He has 3 options

You are a sahp
You go back to work and buy in help
You go back to work and he takes on 50% of the mental and physical load of the house and dc

He seriously can't expect you to work and do all the housework and child rearing? If he thinks it's possible then maybe HE shoiuld do it.

What do you get from the relationship? He sounds horrible, he clearly doesn't respect or love you so what's the point?

You'd be much better off leaving him, you could outsource as much of the housework and childcare as you like then without feeling stressed about his attitude.

He sounds like a misogynist tbh.

The thing is OP, he won't ever be able to see things from your POV, never as from an equal partnership. He set himself (anf you) a financial goal to hit, like a project to complete and anything else comes in between, he just sees it as an annoyance or obstacle to overcome i. e. your mental health struggle. My friend I mentioned upthread, she spent her 25 years trying to make sense / service him so they can 'achieve' his goal before a complete break down.

He just doesn't have a holistic view of life and happiness that it brings. It is one way and only his way.

I heard that keeping people exhausted is a tactic employed by cults to keep people under control. He's doing a good job of keeping you exhausted. Also by sabotaging your career he will have you further stuck and under control.

Even if you broke even, you should work and hire a housekeeper to do all the domestic work. It is because of him doing nothing at home that you need to hire help. Why should you do even 50% of the domestic work if he does nothing?

If he doesn't want to outsource, he can do all the housework, can't he - since it's so easy to get it right.

Of course it makes no financial sense to hire a housekeeper when you already have a slave living at home. Better than a slave - you also service him sexually AND pay half the bills.

It sounds like you can't afford a bigger house, kids house deposits etc if the cost of those things is you working 3 jobs (including round-the-clock nanny).

It's true that he sounds worse and worse with each post. Like he doesn't care about you. Outsource and do none of the housework. Do not allow him to exhaust you again when you start working. Wake him up in the night, etc. Stop doing this to yourself. He chose to have kids, he can look after them.

It sounds like you are doing this to yourself. In answer to us, you keep regurgitating his bullshit as a counterpoint. What is the purpose of your thread? What are you going to do about it?

It sounds like you are doing this to yourself. In answer to us, you keep regurgitating his bullshit as a counterpoint. What is the purpose of your thread? What are you going to do about it?

I'm not telling you the stuff he says as a counterpoint. I just feel really weak against him. I just can't win an argument without it escalating and he just does not get it or doesn't want to get it. I'm just trying to find ammunition to finally get him to change / understand where I'm coming from. He doesn't with how I communicate with him. He says I'm nagging / tells me to shut up/ says I'm hysterical/ he doesn't need this ' shit ' from me, with everything else he has on his plate etc etc.

I just can't get through to him and sorry but he makes me doubt myself all the time.

Is this business all in his name and a non-marital asset?

I would be very very careful.

He doesn't see you as an equal nor value you as either a partner or the parent of your DC.

OP I think you need to leave him, he won't change. At most he might pander to you for a few weeks/months whilst he thinks he's in the danger zone.

You need to eliminate the idea that the right argument will win him round. It won't.

You're intelligent and competent and you can stand on your own two feet financially, don't fall into the trap of staying just for a bigger house/private school/holidays etc. Your children will be better off in a smaller house, state school and cheaper holidays if on a daily basis their mum is happier.

@icantfuckingwin you can't make him change, you can't make him see things from your viewpoint and you can't make him magically be nice to you.

He is behaving unreasonably and at this point you are wasting your time and energy trying to interact with him in the way a reasonable person would.

You will never win in this dynamic. He doesn't want to hear you.

I'm sorry to sound harsh, but I think you need to take a big step back and truly evaluate the reality of this relationship. Not how it was at the beginning, not how you wish it to be, but how it actually is.

I'm really sorry to hear that. And wow again, he sounds worse with each update. I reckon that getting "ammunition " to bring to him is pointless. Everything you have already said to him makes perfect reasonable sense. There is no ammunition that you can gather that will "get through " to him. You can't talk him round. He has chosen this role for you and that's that. He knows how to handle you and shut you down.

All you can do is whatever is in your control to do. Perhaps tell him you'll be spending all your wage on household help and your personal shopping and he can pay for everything else and see what he says to that. It sounds like he will not budge on the role he has assigned for you. And he sounds like an absolute arsehole.