I can't really go back to work with H attitude

[icantfuckingwin]

Two kids- 4 and 2.

H trying to build an empire and make it big. Self employed business. Requires A LOT of hours out of the house. I do not wish to disclose the type of business it is. But it's not work from home.

He leaves at 6 and comes back at 8:30-9 pm. The commute is around 1:15-1:30 minutes.

He's been putting a lot into it for many years and is on the brink of a possible investment, let's say. To enlarge business.

I've also had quite a successful career. I went back to work after both babies. I also manage everything home related, as I've always worked from home, there was just more time for me to do it.

For the last year I held a senior position, on a pretty big salary. Not humble bragging. But I suffered from absolute burn out. I could no longer maintain everything. I was doing all night wakings, all mornings, all drop offs and all pick ups, plus dinner time and bed time alone. My kids school is also an hour round trip because of traffic. I did have the help of a cleaner and spent money on convenience foods and take aways too often, but was really trying to just get through the days somehow. We had a nanny for a while before my youngest went to nursery and she'd fill in if I had work trips abroad etc. anyway my H all the while always complaining how much money we spent on outsourcing and making me feel guilty about it.

So we recently started discussing my return to work and what was going to change. To which he said, well we can't spend that much money on outsourcing stuff- otherwise it won't be worth you working. We will be paying more to outsource than you'll be earning. This is because I suggested we have a housekeeper a few times a week, rather than a cleaner once a week, to make things easier on me. He said I never think about the finances and only about getting more and more help in.

This was part of the reason I left my job too, as I was made to feel guilty for needing help.

He essentially wants a wife who works full time on a big salary and takes care of all the home and childcare stuff with no help ( aside from nursery ) while he goes off to build his empire.

And I know what he'll say, he'll say I never supported him and he did it all alone. He already thinks that. Because I couldn't handle ' my lot '. When I was working and caused him a headache by complaining about it all.

I am sad but I don't think I can go back to work under these circumstances. He still does not get it and he'll begrudge the money we will need to speak to pick up his side of the equation.

Do not give up work. There are some real red flags here and if you have no money you have no power.
Hold on by your fingertips; your children will get older and more independent - it seems a long way off but it’ll soon come round. You’ll regret giving up work. If he’s moaning about money now imagine what he’ll be like without your income.

If the marriage did breakdown, it would mean that was something that couldn't be taken off you so easily. And it would mean that you legally are entitled to half of everything.

but really, I think it would be a step that demonstrates that in a marriage everything is shared, in every way - which ultimately is what, for me, is missing from your situation.

tbh it sounds like he doesn't treat you with the respect that he would entrust you with legal right to half the business. You can judge if it is worth raising it to try and get the point across that more sharing is needed.

you have said that what you really want is to work, so you should do that. And get in the help to do the 50% of home/parent work that DH doesn't pick up.

With his 6am to 9pm hours, what does he really want from thr family? Doesn't sound like he has much relationship with the children. Is he part of the family really?

It feels like you are trying to reason around what he is asking for, and I try to come to it at your level , to find a way to meet or negotiate the demands he makes. But the more I read, the less reasonable it feels and the more he is taking advantage, not meeting what you want, not contributing to shared family needs and I think your situation is unhappy and vulnerable.

Good luck working it out. You have a lot going for you - and a career to date and work options. You say you want to work, so do that, because you judge that is what will make you happy.

@icantfuckingwin I think you should go back to work too.

Might it help to set-up a spreadsheet if you do. The hours you spend at work, the hours your dh spends at work. Costed in accordance with your hourly rates. The hours you both spend commuting and doing family jobs - costed at NMW or LLW depending where you live.

If the hours you spend working and supporting the family are equal to your husband's working hours that's fine. However, if despite all his work your dh brings in less than you once your input is fully costed, then he's taking the piss a bit. If that's the case and as your dc become more independent and you become more successful, you'll be the breadwinner and doing all the house stuff.

Leave now and maximise your assets. In my experience most successful people are making money relatively quickly. It's the pipe dreamers who put in 10 years of slog and never seem to get the break.

What does he do and what's his USP? DH was a bit of a slow burner, years of professional quals and a niche specialism.

So from my understanding one thing you both agree on is that you should go back to work: great!

The thing you’re disagreeing on is how the household chores & childcare are managed and how your finances are managed.

You’re doing your half of the household & child related tasks. He’s not doing his. He wants to pass his half onto his staff (you). He doesn’t get to bloody do that!! You rightly want to pass his half onto other staff because of course you can’t do it all.

He doesn’t like the financial impact of his not pulling his weight at home - tough shit would be the response from me.

This is all about control. You don’t have a partnership here at all and if he’s only thinking about himself then so should you. Do exactly what you need to stay healthy and sane and start working on grey rocking his exaggerated controlling narrative about wasted money.

What is his answer then?

He wants to be the big boss man, and he wants you to bring in £££ as well. But he doesn't want to pay for help, or do any actual parenting or household stuff either.

Well, I'd say that if neither of you want to do the household surgery, then it gets outsourced. Non-negotiable. It's unfair of him to expect full time hours in two roles from you so he can pursue his passion project. If he can't see that, then too bad - you can still go ahead and arrange stuff without his impact. You've been doing it a long time it's not like that's much of a difference.

He's so focused on the financial he's lost sight of what having a wife and family actually means.

Arrange the help you need, go back to work, and if he queries it tell him he might be good at his job but he's a shit husband and father so you've outsourced those elements. He's just lucky you're not billing him directly for the work you do as well.

Sounds like yet another man who wants the social kudos of "wife plus 2 kids", without any of the work, effort, or engagement.

I want to grind my teeth just reading about your husband never mind actually putting up with him in real life. He is judgemental and critical and an inadequate dad (who never does overnight wakeups and ignores his young children).

He doesn’t get to veto what you want - he might be building an empire at work but he’s not king of your family and your views have equal weight.

Stand up for yourself and tell him to knock it off with the moaning.

OP, the slightly odd way you talk about his 'empire' makes me think he's in the Mafia or something 🤣

Another vote for this.

i would wager good money if you become a sahm you will bitterly regret it in the future.

@BeanCountingContinues post stands.
i think you need to think about what if anything you can get from him to make the relationship viable.
i also think its worth closely evaluating life without him and see which has the most pros v cons

Then don't.

Cooking, cleaning and childcare should be shared 50:50 if you both work FT.
I would demand he curbs his empire building so he can take over 50% of chores.
If he does not want to he can pay someone else to do it.

Domestic work is womans job only if she does not have paid job on a side. Any other way both should cover that.

What does this matter? We have recently come into an inheritance that will pay off our mortgage and enough left over for us to live comfortably on just DH salary and someone asked me that

and my answer was no I want to work the way I work (freelance from home with teenagers) gives me a purpose in life and I enjoy it - being an editor is part of who I am alongside a wife and a mother and they are all important to me working is vital for my mental health

@icantfuckingwin you need to make it v v clear that working is non negotiable how it is going to work is but also you doing everything alongside working isn’t possible either

Then go back to work and fund your 50% of childcare and your 50% of domestic tasks. Ask DH how he plans on tackling his 50%—DIY, or outsourcing.

My salary will still cover the extra costs.

This is completely backwards. You will still be doing your half of household stuff and parenting. He's the one unwilling to do his share, so it is HIS salary that needs to be worth paying for outsourcing.

This isn't just semantics either. It's about his (and your) attitude to your home and children. They aren't your sole responsibility, they are a shared one.

This boils down to couples and particularly women, not discussing the future before entering into a permanent partnership which should be bound by a clear socio-economic agreement.

Women allow low bars to develop incrementally by being to keen to cement a lasting relationship and to settle.

My DH knew from the get go I wasn't a door mat. When we met I had my own house and my own cleaner. He knew from day one that I didn't clean and certainly didn't iron for a man. Therefore he always knew he had to pay for that. Similarly, he isn't a practical man and we pay for decorating, odd jobs, gardening, etc.

When we got married we had a pre-nup which I don't believe is legally binding nowadays but it set out that the house was x equity in my name and that percentage was always protected. He earnt half arising from his contributions in relation to the percentage that wasn't my equity. My inheritance from my grandparents was also ringfenced.

It was all academic after ten years or so because by that point he had left everyone else standing.

I know so many women who gave up work due to the cist of childcare, soldiered on in loveless marriages for 15/20 years curating conversations restricted to their dc, interior design, holidays and tennis. At 50ish they were separated. They talk now about what they had and are bitter. They were unemployable years before they separated. Don't become one of those women.

I was asked once what I thought were the most important factors in a successful relationship and I said equality and respect. Not love.... Equality doesn't mean you have to be in the same position earning/working hours. It means you treat the other person fairly for what they can contribute and value it. Respect means acknowledgement of that contribution and also acknowledging any sacrifice. If you have neither equality or respect you cannot have any love.......
I am Director of my company. DH also has a Director level job. We both work long hours and earn well.
The requirement for childcare and domestic outsourcing is split 50:50 (as we earn similar and work similar hours) to enable us both to work.
The mental load of domestic duties is split 50:50 to enable us both to work.
If we both work our combined income after tax is circa £10k per month
If I was not able to work because I am doing all childcare, shopping, cooking etc etc our combined income would be £5k.......
Even if we pay £1-2k pcm on domestic outsourcing we are still far better off. It's a no brainer!!
My time is valuable. I want to spend time I am not working; with DD, riding my horse or eating biscuits on the sofa. I don't want to be fucking dusting!! DH time is valuable he wants to spend time with DD, moan about horses and fiddle with his lawn mower. He doesn't want to be fucking dusting either!! So no one dusts except the cleaner and we are all fine with that.
You on the other hand have a massive DH inequality and lack of respect problem.......
You held that senior position because you deserved it. You are intelligent, competent and valued in the work place. Do NOT let go of that!. The fact you burnt out was not your fault. You simply cannot do everything and be everything to everyone. Show me senior leadership men doing everything??!! Show me senior leadership men having guilt trips for not having cleaned the toilet to perfection or made it to sports day???
Grow some balls and start thinking about looking after YOU because your husband clearly won't. Get back to work, keep your financial security. Fight him tooth and nail for the domestic help you need.
Worst case if he leaves you or you leave him then you will survive (with a nanny) and you will need that salary and pension. Do not find yourself 65 and penniless because he held you back.
I'd also reconsider private school, do you really need it?? It's a massive cost/burden..... we're on £200k with one child and we could do it but it would be a stretch... we couldn't do it with 2.....if there's a state school which could do the job I'd save the money and put it into pension/savings having a divorce fund....... Invest in weekly private tutoring for them instead.
Good luck.

@varietyisthespice fwiw, dh earnt approaching seven figure sums at the height of his career. And yes I did still work and want to work - for a fraction of his earnings. I think it strengthened our marriage because it kept me connected to the real world and society and certainly strengthened my relationship with my children as they became teenagers and twenty somethings.

@RosesAndHellebores that's all great but I also had my own place when I was with my husband before we married and once we moved in together, we always had a cleaner and I also refused to iron his shirts and we've always outsourced that. We still outsource that. In the same way we outsource decorating and DIY.

I also never cooked much and refused to pick up his crap. Kids do change the situation and it's not always the woman's fault for being a doormat from the start. I wasn't. I didn't want the role of house slave. It still has ended up like that.

@icantfuckingwin I apologise, I didn't mean that comment on a personal basis.

What you have just said, however, persuades me that your DH is a selfish pig. What are you getting out of this relationship?

I suspect you aren't yet 40, or possibly 35. You have a lifetime ahead of you and only you can make sure it is a happy one, notwithstanding the role models you want your dc to experience.

Good luck.

This man needs to realised he is married with 2 young children. If he wants to build up his business and work long hours it means that your carrying the housework, childcare and administration of this. Along with this he wants you to work because he wants that income as well.

If you have children and are both working you need to outsource things to make it work. You both pay 50% of this cost and it includes getting the house cleaned so you have the weekends free to spend with the kids.

In your situation I would be getting back into work and building up your own career. I would be telling him that since your both working outside the home that he has to pay half the cost of outsourcing or he is at home more to collect children, cook dinner's ect.
He can't expect you to work and do all of this. It not been fair on you or his kid's.

In your situation I would be thinking of your own future long term as well. It not easy working full time when you have small kids but in a few years time you're kids will be in school. As they get older the costs will increase especially if you want them going to private schools especially at secondary school age.

Then if you're working your earning your own money, paying your own NI, paying into your own pension and building up your own career. With experience and possibly some further training you have the ability to change jobs for more money or better hours.
You can put yourself in a position that you may be able to retire early or work part time for a few years before retirement age.

As well if you're husband keeps acting the way he is currently it gives you the option of telling him it is over. He then going to have the kids more and he won't have you their to do his washing ect. By then his business could be doing well and you would be entitled to some of his income/pension.

You need to do what's best for you now and think long term when making plans. Don't stay at home making his life easier. From what you said about him he could make a success of the business and then leave you because of course he has a new girlfriend.
I have seen this happen and then the ex wife is left with very little money and is trying to get a job after being out of the work force for few years.

What a prick. I've only read your first post. He wants his empire. What about your empire. The kids and home are both your responsibilities. Also bear in mind if you split up things will be so unbalanced. Get working - build your empire - don't allow him to rule you.

you need to stay in work because your relationship is shit on it's last leg.

outsource wat you need to cope. don't forget to think about yourself.
all the best.

@icantfuckingwin i remember you know when you were burning out and nearly facing a breakdown in the original thread and you are still no further forward because he doesn’t respect you

There was a brief moment where he seemed to get it a couple of months ago, but he doesn't, clearly, from the conversations yesterday.

He's always talking about really successful people who've built successful companies and how they need to have tunnel vision and I just don't get it apparently. I don't understand his business, any time I suggest he changes something there.

I can't win, unless I literally go back to where I was before and I just can't. I feel sick. And I am sick. I'm not well by any means, physically, mentally. Everything isn't good. But I must say I do feel better since I'm not working, in the sense that I'm less stressed in many many ways and I have a lot more patience with my kids. But it's not what's right long term.
I wish he just said, go back- we will work together to make sure you aren't over burdened, no matter how much it costs. I support you and you're doing this for our family and I don't want you to be running on empty. Instead he's saying 'yeah you should go back but we not to stop wasting so much money, otherwise it's not worth it '..

he sounds worse with every update OP :(

do you never think about leaving him?