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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

DHs reaction to sharing job is bothering me

198 replies

Alllthatsmine · 05/07/2024 16:45

DH is a teacher at a private secondary school, he's worked there for 10 years, loves the school and is great at his job. He works 4 days a week as he is trying to write his own book.
Recently his department head retired, the competition for new department head has been tough both internally and externally but he's put his all in.
Recently it was announced he would be the joint head of department, his co-head would be a relatively young teacher from another school, this will be just her 6th year of teaching.
They explained the reasons are that they both work over 4 days (though DH did make it clear if he was given department head he would be willing to go up to 5 if successful) and that they felt their skill sets were complimentary. DH asked more on what they meant, and the effectively said he has the experience and leadership skills but she has the fresh ideas, innovation and drive.
Now DHs reaction has been immature and really bothered me. He effectively saying he doesn't want to do it if he has to share, he thinks it will lead to fall out and he doesn't want to be forced into untested new ideas. He's also made several comments that have bothered me after they met up this week for the first time.

  1. He told me that she is newly married and he asked if kids were on the cards soon (I've told him how wrong it is to ask this), she replied with in the next couple of years yes. So now he is complaining that it is a joint role but he will end up doing it alone while she's on maternity leave (confused as I thought that would make him happy!)
  2. They discussed pay (again fear DH may have been the one to bring this up!), turns out they are getting the exact same pay and benefits. He thinks this is an insult to his experience. I said I think it's fair as they will be doing the same job and should be paid the same amount accordingly
  3. He has made several comments of "have to comprise with a woman at home and now at work too"

AIBU to be really bothered by this reaction and to think it's disgusting. It's actually making me question everything!! Or is it fair to be annoyed?

OP posts:
godmum56 · 06/07/2024 09:34

Ohnobackagain · 06/07/2024 09:13

@Alllthatsmine wouldn’t care for his sexist comments, but I do get where he’s coming from on a lot of it. I’d probably be thinking all kinds of what-ifs? It would be quite unsettling. One thing’s for sure, it will require 100% commitment to sharing and being open. It can’t work if one party tries to keep stuff to themselves or hide things and so on. And how do they know who’s doing better? Will it be a trial basis? I’d be excited and daunted all at once. But in a job share you’d have to be on the same package - both starting at the same point.

Again the "who is better" question demonstates a misunderstanding about jobshares. One thing a jobshare is not is any kind of competition. The question for management is "Is the JOBSHARE succeeding?"
As for where he is coming from, the comments listed by rhe OP DEFINITELY tell me where he is coming from and its not an attitude I would like so see modelled to school children.

Weetabbix · 06/07/2024 09:58

Ivehearditbothways · 06/07/2024 08:35

She will also be mentoring him on innovation and being brave enough to try new things. She should be paid more.
See how that works? You can twist it to suit whichever way you want and you seem hell bent on labelling this man as the mentor, the lead role, the best. He isn’t. Or he’d have got the job alone. Neither is she or she would have got the job alone. They are on a level playing field.

And his attitude is absolutely disgusting so I hope she reports his questioning over her reproductive choices and I hope he makes more nasty comments so he gets demoted.

They're not on a level playing field. She is a less experienced external candidate without leadership experience.

New ideas are great, innovation is important, but day to day leadership and management is the bread and butter of a head of department role. Managing staff and ensuring that the department functions day to day is 90% of the job. From the info we've been given in the OP, she doesn't have experience and knowledge to bring to that and will need to be supported in the role. Supporting someone with new ideas and innovation is not the same.

I completely agree about the chauvinistic attitudes and comments, as I've already said, I'm not defending that at all.

Weetabbix · 06/07/2024 10:01

godmum56 · 06/07/2024 09:34

Again the "who is better" question demonstates a misunderstanding about jobshares. One thing a jobshare is not is any kind of competition. The question for management is "Is the JOBSHARE succeeding?"
As for where he is coming from, the comments listed by rhe OP DEFINITELY tell me where he is coming from and its not an attitude I would like so see modelled to school children.

The thing is though, they shouldn't really be put in a job share, because one is more experienced than the other. I can understand his point about this. It will end up as a frustrating situation for both of them.

A better solution would be for one to be the head of department (probably him due to his additional experience) and the other to be a deputy.

godmum56 · 06/07/2024 10:16

Weetabbix · 06/07/2024 10:01

The thing is though, they shouldn't really be put in a job share, because one is more experienced than the other. I can understand his point about this. It will end up as a frustrating situation for both of them.

A better solution would be for one to be the head of department (probably him due to his additional experience) and the other to be a deputy.

Experience is not the only criterion or requirement.....may even be a disadvantage if the experience gained is not used well...and experience defined merely as "number of years in the job" is not only irrelevant, it can actually be a disadvantage. We have all (or most of us) met the manager or co-worker who "has always done it this way and is not about to change now" As I said before, I would not want to see a man with those views on women and co-operation modelling those views in a school and especially not as HOD. I know its a reach but maybe the school management knew about his attitude to women and thought a female work partner might mitigate those views? All I can think is poor woman!

Ohnobackagain · 06/07/2024 10:33

@godmum56 I realise it’s not a competition, but it’s quite normal to have some actually selfish thoughts when first thinking through this kind of stuff, especially when you’re disappointed (doesn’t make it right of course). Doesn’t sound to me as though OP’s DH is suited, but, if I’d been given such an offer, I’d be a bit anxious and want to know I could handle all that comes with it. He might think more and come to terms with it, but could also conclude he’s not secure enough to handle it. It could work brilliantly with the right person sharing the role … harder to judge if you don’t know the other person and of course he might (maybe incorrectly) have thought the job was all but his and be deflated. The OP@Alllthatsmine knows her DH best and will know if he might change his mind/realise he’s made some ill-judged comments or not.

Ivehearditbothways · 06/07/2024 10:41

Weetabbix · 06/07/2024 09:58

They're not on a level playing field. She is a less experienced external candidate without leadership experience.

New ideas are great, innovation is important, but day to day leadership and management is the bread and butter of a head of department role. Managing staff and ensuring that the department functions day to day is 90% of the job. From the info we've been given in the OP, she doesn't have experience and knowledge to bring to that and will need to be supported in the role. Supporting someone with new ideas and innovation is not the same.

I completely agree about the chauvinistic attitudes and comments, as I've already said, I'm not defending that at all.

She has the same experience as him. OP said she was placed into a leadership role to cover for someone for a long stint and her husband has done various short stints covering, added up they’ve had the same length of time in converting leadership roles and doing the job. He doesn’t have more experience.

He has been teaching longer, he has more experience teaching in a classroom. But he does not have more experience in a leadership role. His point of view seems to be that he is older so should be more valued, but he doesn’t have the necessary experience to be more valued.

He pushed for reasons why it is a jobshare and they gave him some rough ideas of why but the reality is that they were both strong candidates and both bring the same amount of qualities to the table and both happy working 4 days a week; for a full time role with classroom duties still a requirement, a job share just makes sense.

He is not a mentor. He does not have more experience. He is not valued more. Just shut up.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 06/07/2024 10:58

The OP states that she is a young teacher coming from another school with 6 years' teaching experience, and is bringing (no doubt very good and valuable) fresh ideas.

OP's husband is bringing leadership skills and a decade of experience working at that school.

From the information given, OP's husband is the more skilled and experienced candidate for a head of department job, and if they are both recruited to a "job share" he will likely end up mentoring her.

Six years' experience is enough. Who says the OP's dh is 'more skilled'? He certainly doesn't sound very skilled in professional relationships with colleagues, based on his reactand the way he questioned this woman. Having been a teacher for longer doesn't necessarily make you better at being a head of anything. And she's had as much experience as him at being an acting HoD.

Calliopespa · 06/07/2024 11:09

CheesyLouisey · 06/07/2024 08:50

Well I don't think he's cut out for leadership purely on the basis of asking a woman whether kids are on the cards soon.

He'll have a grievance against him in no time if he carries on...

I’m a woman. I’ve had kids. I have nothing against myself or the fact that I did it.

But if I were sharing a job role with a younger me, I’d be interested in knowing the answer about my plans . I realise we are not supposed to ask, and so for that reason alone I wouldn’t, but let’s admit to the elephant in the room: it is something people often want to ask and not because they are misogynistic, but because it impacts.

godmum56 · 06/07/2024 11:19

Sorry but again, having done something for longer does NOT equal experience....its how you use the time you have been doing something that gives you experience, not the length of time....and from his comment about untested new ideas, I expect he hasn't been using his time all that well.

Icantpaint · 06/07/2024 11:25

Absolutely sympathise with not wanting to job share. It can feel like you’re not trusted to do it properly. Nothing wrong with not wanting that.

also being paid the same as someone with much less experience. I’d be annoyed at that and would expect it to not be the case

sexist shit. Nope that’s not right

HornyHornersPinkyWinky · 06/07/2024 11:36

Weetabbix · 06/07/2024 09:58

They're not on a level playing field. She is a less experienced external candidate without leadership experience.

New ideas are great, innovation is important, but day to day leadership and management is the bread and butter of a head of department role. Managing staff and ensuring that the department functions day to day is 90% of the job. From the info we've been given in the OP, she doesn't have experience and knowledge to bring to that and will need to be supported in the role. Supporting someone with new ideas and innovation is not the same.

I completely agree about the chauvinistic attitudes and comments, as I've already said, I'm not defending that at all.

Where is this mythical 'more leadership experience' you keep mentioning?

You said 'from the info we've been given in the OP' but Alllthatsmine has updated with further information, stating that they both spent the same amount of time as acting head.

So in reality, he has more teaching experience - but that doesn't necessarily equate to leadership experience.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 06/07/2024 11:36

Sorry but again, having done something for longer does NOT equal experience....its how you use the time you have been doing something that gives you experience, not the length of time

I disagree. If, for example, you have 10 years' experience of being a Head of Department, then you have 10 years' experience of being a Head of Department, whether or not you were good at it or used your time well. How well you did it is down to competence, skill, motivation, talent etc.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 06/07/2024 11:41

Ugh, your husband is a sexist dinosaur.

godmum56 · 06/07/2024 11:45

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 06/07/2024 11:36

Sorry but again, having done something for longer does NOT equal experience....its how you use the time you have been doing something that gives you experience, not the length of time

I disagree. If, for example, you have 10 years' experience of being a Head of Department, then you have 10 years' experience of being a Head of Department, whether or not you were good at it or used your time well. How well you did it is down to competence, skill, motivation, talent etc.

so you'd choose someone with ten years experience of doing a job the same way , never improving or innovating, over someone with 3 years experience of doing the job who has improved the department's results out of all recognition?

godmum56 · 06/07/2024 11:46

Icantpaint · 06/07/2024 11:25

Absolutely sympathise with not wanting to job share. It can feel like you’re not trusted to do it properly. Nothing wrong with not wanting that.

also being paid the same as someone with much less experience. I’d be annoyed at that and would expect it to not be the case

sexist shit. Nope that’s not right

I agree. Jobshares are not for everyone.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 06/07/2024 11:49

so you'd choose someone with ten years experience of doing a job the same way , never improving or innovating, over someone with 3 years experience of doing the job who has improved the department's results out of all recognition?

Confused No. What on earth makes you think I said that? I was just disputing your definition of the word 'experience'.

godmum56 · 06/07/2024 11:50

Ohnobackagain · 06/07/2024 10:33

@godmum56 I realise it’s not a competition, but it’s quite normal to have some actually selfish thoughts when first thinking through this kind of stuff, especially when you’re disappointed (doesn’t make it right of course). Doesn’t sound to me as though OP’s DH is suited, but, if I’d been given such an offer, I’d be a bit anxious and want to know I could handle all that comes with it. He might think more and come to terms with it, but could also conclude he’s not secure enough to handle it. It could work brilliantly with the right person sharing the role … harder to judge if you don’t know the other person and of course he might (maybe incorrectly) have thought the job was all but his and be deflated. The OP@Alllthatsmine knows her DH best and will know if he might change his mind/realise he’s made some ill-judged comments or not.

I'd call them a bit more than ill judged......

godmum56 · 06/07/2024 11:52

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 06/07/2024 11:49

so you'd choose someone with ten years experience of doing a job the same way , never improving or innovating, over someone with 3 years experience of doing the job who has improved the department's results out of all recognition?

Confused No. What on earth makes you think I said that? I was just disputing your definition of the word 'experience'.

because if you aren't going to make any judgement on how your definition of "experience" has been used, then it becomes irrelevant. Its certainly not an argument for seniority or a better salary.

BigFatLiar · 06/07/2024 11:54

godmum56 · 06/07/2024 11:45

so you'd choose someone with ten years experience of doing a job the same way , never improving or innovating, over someone with 3 years experience of doing the job who has improved the department's results out of all recognition?

I must admit I may have missed it but is the current school under performing? It may be doing well as is but the management want to adopt some new trendy methods. Nothing wrong there, they may not improve the schools results but may make it more marketable to parents.

JudgeJ · 06/07/2024 12:43

Myblindsaredown · 05/07/2024 19:56

She’s not bloody pregnant what should we do, stop women of child bearing age progressing. Christ. I assume you’re all men.

Edited

No lovey, not last time I looked, just more realistic than the majority of women on here!

Weetabbix · 06/07/2024 13:00

Ivehearditbothways · 06/07/2024 10:41

She has the same experience as him. OP said she was placed into a leadership role to cover for someone for a long stint and her husband has done various short stints covering, added up they’ve had the same length of time in converting leadership roles and doing the job. He doesn’t have more experience.

He has been teaching longer, he has more experience teaching in a classroom. But he does not have more experience in a leadership role. His point of view seems to be that he is older so should be more valued, but he doesn’t have the necessary experience to be more valued.

He pushed for reasons why it is a jobshare and they gave him some rough ideas of why but the reality is that they were both strong candidates and both bring the same amount of qualities to the table and both happy working 4 days a week; for a full time role with classroom duties still a requirement, a job share just makes sense.

He is not a mentor. He does not have more experience. He is not valued more. Just shut up.

"Just shut up"? - what an immature and inarticulate response.

In the initial post, OP said that he brought to the table leadership experience, and she brought new ideas ("He has the experience and leadership skills but she has the fresh ideas, innovation and drive")

My responses are based on that scenario, not extra information which was drip fed after I responded. The reality is that in a head of department role, leadership experience is essential.

Obviously if they are on an equal footing regarding that, then they should be paid the same (and it's questionable as to why he is even being offered the role at all as she would obviously be the better candidate) - But that wasn't the information given.

Weetabbix · 06/07/2024 13:02

HornyHornersPinkyWinky · 06/07/2024 11:36

Where is this mythical 'more leadership experience' you keep mentioning?

You said 'from the info we've been given in the OP' but Alllthatsmine has updated with further information, stating that they both spent the same amount of time as acting head.

So in reality, he has more teaching experience - but that doesn't necessarily equate to leadership experience.

... Which was a drip feed.

In the original post (which is what my response was based on), OP said "He has the experience and leadership skills but she has the fresh ideas, innovation and drive".

HornyHornersPinkyWinky · 06/07/2024 13:52

Weetabbix · 06/07/2024 13:02

... Which was a drip feed.

In the original post (which is what my response was based on), OP said "He has the experience and leadership skills but she has the fresh ideas, innovation and drive".

The OP posted updates within about an hour of her original post, which you seem to have ignored.That's not a drip feed - it's giving more context.

Your posts from this morning are again ignoring updates she gave last night.

Most people don't give all the information in the first post, it would be too long. When asked, she clarified that they both had the same level of leadership experience.

Something you seem determined to ignore.

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