Don't vote reform

[Crispynoodle]

Obviously I can't tell you who to vote for but then there is this:

news.sky.com/story/second-reform-candidate-quits-and-backs-tories-over-racism-and-misogyny-13162247

@scatterolight you know just because you’ve heard something before doesn’t make it any less true, right….? What I’m saying is that if you want the teachers and the bus drivers then you need to accept a certain number of the school kids and the passengers. If you say “we don’t want people like you being passengers on our bus” and wind up with nobody to drive it, all the passengers suffer.

The supposed drain on our economy from immigration is absolutely tiny compared to the amount of backhanders handed out by Whitehall or the tax dodges by the super-wealthy. All it would take is for Vodafone to pay their tax bill and it offsets the entire cost of immigration.

Further, “In the past few years, the government has published data derived from Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC, the government body responsible for collecting taxes and paying certain benefits) and the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) of amounts paid and received by foreign nationals. For example, HMRC data show that in FY2018/19 (the most recent year for which there are data), EEA and Swiss citizens paid £22.4bn more in income tax and National Insurance contributions than they took out in tax credits and child benefit (HMRC, 2022). Non-EEA (and non-Swiss) citizens paid £20bn more in income tax and National Insurance than they received in tax credits and child benefit.”

Sunak has no idea. He’s pro Brexit for a start, which is at the root of most of the issues you mention. The Tories have lost the right to be taken seriously, respected or trusted with repeated lying, law breaking and poor economic decisions. Time to let Labour back. It was much better last time they were in charge.

This post is kind of off-topic, but has anyone seen these publicity shots of Rishi Sunak out on a warehouse visit today and admiring an avocado? It really tickled me 😂😂 looks to me like he’s doing his best Hamlet impersonation here (‘alas, poor Yorick. I knew him, Horatio…’) Or should that be ‘alas, poor Boris. I thought I’d never get rid of him’?

Who said anything about getting rid of immigrants who are here legally and working? I'm suggesting stop illegal immigrants from coming on the boats.

Sorry, the photo wouldn’t post! Here it is 😂

Why on earth would we be getting rid of migrant NHS staff? They are making a valuable contribution to the UK.

To my mind, this debate has only ever been about illegal/economic migrants, who are not contributing in the same way; increased numbers = more pressure on schools, housing, the NHS etc, all of which are already under immense strain.

Is it so hard to understand why some people might have a problem with this?

Well, when you die, you're not really paying tax on anything, are you? So you aren't really paying twice. But yes, if your dc inherit significant sums above the very high threshold, then they will pay tax on that portion of the inheritance. I really don't see why they shouldn't, inheritance is a matter of luck and they haven't earned it in the slightest. Why shouldn't a little bit of it help to support people who have lost their jobs or can't work due to disability etc. Your kids will still get loads.

But I get it. Your values are totally different and you only care about your own family. That's exactly why the state needs to step in as far as I'm concerned. Personally, I would whack inheritance tax up even higher.

And yes, depending on what happens with care costs etc, I may well be affected by this tax. It doesn't matter. Unearned wealth should always be taxed heavily.

Your post seems quite confused.

Many NHS staff will be "economic migrants". There is nothing inherently illegal about economic migration.

Most of those who enter the country "illegally" end up claiming asylum. (And most are granted it because their claims are seemed to be valid.) Most want to work but can't because they are not legally permitted to do so - we could allow them to work and pay taxes while waiting for their claims to be assessed, but we choose not to. Most do work and contribute if and when they are granted refugee status. It isn't their fault that the home office takes forever to process their applications.

The overwhelming majority of immigrants in this country have entered via legal routes. So-called "illegal migration" is a tiny percentage of the total. I think you are mistaken to assume that, when people talk about "immigration", they are only talking about this very small number.

Exactly this.. can't wait for Friday

Myself and all my siblings have paid portions of mortgage, repair and work bills, living bills etc for my mum/her house. We have paid towards it. Why should we pay again?

Work for your own assets rather than expect to piggyback off others

Of course it’s not ideal, but we understand that it’s not an enormous problem in the grand scheme. The problem is much bigger in people’s heads than in real life.

It is a fact that we have to take asylum seekers. We are bound by international law. We can’t get out of it. Whether they come on dinghies or we set up a processing centre in France and bring them legally, we still have to take them. We already take a tiny number compared to other leading nations.

As I said earlier, I live in an area with a ‘high’ asylum seeking population. Even so, they’re still not “taking over”. They walk round the city centre during the day in pairs because they’re not allowed to do anything else, but they’re polite and respectful and not a bother.

I took a Ukrainian Mum and kids to a shop to buy school uniform when they first arrived here. The shop was owned by an Iraqi guy. We sorted the uniforms and PE kits for two kids, and he bagged it up and refused to take payment for it. He said “I was a refugee here too. People here look after each other”.

Yet people who’ve probably never interacted with refugees or immigrants in their lives will have all sorts of crazy preconceived ideas about them taking over and forcing us to convert to Islam. It’s just fear based on nothing. I know 3rd generation immigrants who aren’t even Muslim anymore, they’re as westernised as you or me.

Of course, there needs to be better processes and processing times. Of course, the Albanians should be sent straight back home (as they now are, and the numbers have decreased since last year). Nobody is saying there aren’t challenges but Farage’s crazy idea of dumping them back in France is completely unworkable.

Some stats on various European countries and their response to refugees. Quite interesting to me how different the numbers & decisionmaking are per country.

Look at Switzerland - by far the smallest population in this list, yet takes per capita by far the greatest number of asylum seekers and grants almost all of them asylum.

Anyone pro-Brexit can be discounted from any arguments regarding growing Britain's economy.

I am certainly not voting Reform but I can understand why people have tapped into their message. If it takes votes away from my standing Conservative MP so much the better.

Unfortunately there is no one in this election I can really back incontrovertibly so I will be voting Labour as the least worst option even though I can't stand Starmer. I am not sure you can call that democracy. So depressing

My post isn't confused at all.

Whether we're born here, migrate here, whatever, the fact remains that the UK IS overpopulated. These numbers are putting pressure on our services, which are already struggling to cope. This debate has only ever been about numbers - however, as soon as you mention the 'I' word, people lose their shit.

The very simple question is this: 'The UK needs to reduce its numbers. How do we go about doing this?'

You haven't actually responded to my post at all!

This is true. Also, we are a small island with beautiful countryside that it would be nice to keep as much of too rather than covering it in houses for an ever-growing population. Once it's gone it's gone. It's the amount of people in a small space that is the issue.

We don’t have to build on countryside. That’s what golf courses are for.

**
To my mind, this debate has only ever been about illegal/economic migrants, who are not contributing in the same way; increased numbers = more pressure on schools, housing, the NHS etc, all of which are already under immense strain.“

”Illegal” immigrants won’t be accessing those services 🙄

My 26 year old son told me he is voting for Reform. I am so disappointed, I thought I brought him up to be a bright and empathetic human being, but whenever I try to talk to him he keeps regurgitating right wing talking points like “people should be able to think for themselves Mum” and “I have a right to my culture.” What culture? Britain doesn’t even have a culture, everything we got came from elsewhere. He should be able to see that, I raised him better than this!

I am so devastated. I have a letter penned for his place of employment and I don’t have the heart to send it, he’s my son at the end of the day but his employers have the right to know about the dark thoughts that are in his head. So does his girlfriend too, she is such a wonderful person. If I found out she was voting the same way I think I would have a breakdown.

What is going on in the world? These are scary times.

If I haven't, it's because a lot of what you said isn't relevant: you are focused on humankind, feelings, emotions, kindness etc.

All of which are lovely and necessary for a functioning society but, respectfully, don't solve what is a genuine problem and will become a bigger problem if we don't try to do something about it:

NUMBERS!

We need to take the emotion out of this topic and just try to answer the fundamental question, which remains:
'The UK needs to reduce its numbers. How do we go about doing this?'

I do hope this is a pisstake.

I mean, you do sound a bit deranged. I would put down the Guardian if I were you. It's not helping your parenting.