AIBU to vote reform

[MeadowL]

Anyone else sick of the Tories and Labour and will be voting reform?

You are free to vote for whichever party you find best aligns with your personal values having read the manifestos.

Unfortunately, many (most!) people don't do this. I cannot believe that any sensible person would vote for Reform having read their "manifesto."

YANBU to not want to vote Labour or Conservative. I'm not either, I'm voting Social Democratic Party for the first time ever.

Yabu to vote for anyone who doesn't denounce Andrew Tate. He's a vile misogynistic piece of shit who is a clear threat to women.

And does the racism not bother you? It should.

Or the fact Farage precipated Brexit, which let's face it was a fucking stupid idea and played right into what Russia wants, a more fragmented Europe. It cost a fortune and provided zero benefit. Unless purple particularly offended you.

Farage was happy to take an MEPs salary but didn't bother to actually turn up and do the work.

Oh and when asked what he would do if Brexit wasn't a success he said he would just move to America. What a classy guy.

It's always 'close the borders' despite the borders having NEVER been open. We were not part of Schengen.

It's always oh let's get rid of all the EU red tape. But anyone who knows anything about import export know that they are more difficult now. I had an 82 year old tell me it's so much easier now since Brexit. He hasn't worked since he was 60. Never did import export and has no fucking clue what he's talking about, but he's read the Daily Express so now he's voting reform. Plus why we would we want to remove things like environmental and safety standards that protect us!? Those things aren't red tape. They are literally for our own benefit.

It's always, stop the immigrants taking our jobs! But also stop the immigrants having benefits!

You have to be riddled with cognitive dissonance to be able to look at Farage's past deeds and think he is a good option.

I'd rather vote for Kier Starmer and he appeals about as much as a pile of mouldering dog turds.

Farage is a cunt and a dangerous one at that.

Rishi is very much a centre politician, as is Starmer.

The Tories have done a lot of taxing the rich, are feeling the effects of the Laffer curve just like you would usually expect from the left. The Covid policies were left and cost £££££££££

Austerity was more right, but it’s over and it went way too far causing expense in the long run. We have a very high tax burden in this country z.

@MeadowL Donald Trump, Benjamin Netanayahu and Vladmir Putin surprise a lot of people. It isn't a happy kind of surprise. More of a horrified disappointed kind of surprise that such vile people command such power.
Yes Reform has and will surprise us ( as above). Surprise that anyone could look at what they represent and what they have to say and feel that it speaks for them.
As others have said the Lib dems and the Greens are available as alternatives to Labour and the Tories.

Havetye wins the internet today 😂😂😂😂😂

The western world and its democracy is in trouble and increasingly looking further right for the answers.

I think we'll find the same answers there as we (collectively) did every other time we tried it - and we won't like them this time, either.

But increasingly voters are now too young to remember previous outcomes - and so I think we'll have to learn the lesson again the hard way.

But reform aren’t going to get in, other than in a couple of seats. It’s better in my opinion that they get a few seats as lack of substance leads to them being discredited that way, if they are as bad as the mumsnetters think.

Silencing views is dangerous.

I respect your right to vote for who you like. I’ll think you’re a racist but I respect the democratic process.

People who spoil their votes are idiotic and irresponsible - glad the future of the country is so entertaining you've 'got the popcorn out'. And to think some people who do this have children, god help the future citizens of the UK if that's what you think is a good example to them.
What does 'indigenous' population even mean?

Everyone knows Reform won't get in this time but I think they are looking further ahead than that.

Aren't Labour misogynist with Keir"I can't bring myself to say what a woman is" Starmer and racist with their anti semitism.

Re question 1 people voting Reform probably largely see it as a protest vote not a “serious” desire for Reform to win.

Like more people voted Brexit than actually wanted it. They thought it was a safe way to protest, only it turned out to be unsafe.

The wasted vote could also be applied to the Green Party for example, but some people will be voting just on a single issue they want given more attention. Others will of course agree with the whole manifesto.

Re question 2, voting is done anonymously so people can vote Reform or any party without getting tarred with any kind of brush. Unless they choose to discuss their political beliefs but the terminology you use is a clue as to who many Reform supporters will stay silent on public forums.

I'll have a go at answering your questions:

1. Maybe just, I dunno, close them?
2. Energy companies make BILLIONS in profits. Maybe the govt could mandate these companies to pass these profits onto consumers?
3. As far as I'm aware, it's very much the left that wants to 'shut down any form of dissent'.

You're welcome! 🤷‍♀️

And how exactly do you suggest they “just close them”?

I cannot get my head around who will actually vote for Reform, but then I remember Brexit. This is the Brexiteers riding again isn’t it?

@MeadowL

I think ReformUK have been on the slow creep since the pandemic. It’s survival if the fittest politics, and Covid pushed many to think that - actually I don’t give to much of a toss about my fellow citizens - so long as I’m ok, and I have my freedom to do what I want.
There were a core of posters here who sentiments on Covid were - word for word - ReformUK policy. Yet denied it was anything political when challenged.

Hitler got into power because the country at the time was in a state of depression. They were looking for a voice, they were concerned with personal welfare only. I think this is when very right wing voices are listened to.
It also concerns me how those with extremist, hateful and harmful views are attracted to ReformUK - even if Farage is careful to speak in a more diluted voice.

I don’t want to live in a world dominated by Trump/Putin/Farage.

I want my health - and the health of my family/others - to be considered and catered for when they are weak.
I want my special needs child to be funded and resourced.
This would not happen under Farage.

‘Just close them.’ How?

Also Farage doesn’t want to close the borders. He’s been clear on that.

this.

you are entitled to voice your opinions just as i am entitled voice the opinion that your opinion is stupid. many right wing people love to exercise that right snd call us stupid for our beliefs.

My point was that the lurch to the right is not specific to the UK so, although there may be a small number of people who are voting Reform for this reason, I think it is a minor reason. I said in a different post, that the chief reason is a decay in living standards which is being experienced concurrently across the 'developed'/ Western world. This is a symptom of that. The complete failure to listen to people who are struggling is absolutely the fault of governments and elites but I see that many have joined in on this thread.

I think that is his game plan but would they have him, especially in the light of all the Putin comments and rumoured links and the seemingly endless stuff that seems to be coming out about so many Reform candidates and supporters. They are popular where I live if the comments on our local media sites are anything to go by, these are very racist and quite sickening to read. Personally I think Farage is a dangerous man whose only concern is to further his own quest for wealth, influence and power. There are real parallels with what happened in Germany in the mid 1930's when Hitler came to power, the right wing rhetoric and the manipulation of many people's feelings of powerlessness

No, that's the definition authoritarian - and it doesn't apply to people sharing opinions on a social forum.

Fascism is a far-right totalitarian, ultranationalist racist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader (Farage for instance - Reform is his own private company, not a democratic political party), centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a 'natural' racial hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

Reform can be reasonably described as proto-fascist - akin to the German National People's Party that preceded Hitler and the Nazis.

Well, another example of a right wing lockdown sceptic party with support from the young in a society where the mainstream left didn't provide much scrutiny is the AFD in Germany. I leave the US out because their policy response was different. However, I don't think this is the only reason by any means.

Ultra left wing like the BBC 😂😂😂