To ask who you are voting for?

[I5itm3]

Labour
Tories
Lib Dem
Green
Reform
SNP (Scotland)

And why?

I care less about the possibility of personally finding a man in a female space than I do about the fact the Labour party is very happy to totally ignore female opinion - at least, if we insist upon having the 'wrong' opinion. As I mentioned in a previous post, I am also extremely concerned about the fact Starmer has repeatedly shown himself to be completely fine with women being insulted, intimidated, threatened and attacked. I can't vote for a party that so obviously holds me in absolute contempt.

I also don't really like the idea of being unable to refuse to let a man do my smear test, or share accommodation with me if I go on a female retreat, or watch me get undressed at the gym etc. But if I believed the majority of women were fine with all that and I was just stuck in my ways, I would accept it. I don't believe that. Nor, I believe, does Starmer.

That's interesting to read. The Communists appeal to me in some ways too.

Tbf it's how quite a lot of Mumsnetters seem to think.

I simply don’t believe Keir Starmer is a misogynist. There is nothing about him that comes across that way. Rishi however…

What about how he treated Rosie? And not listening to women's concerns about sexual violence and safety? And refusal to use the words "single sex space"? And saying some women have penises? And whenever he's asked about women's angle sex spaces he changes the conversation to how vulnerable some men are? Is that not misogynistic enough?

@Anonym00se You what? Where did I say I was? I didn’t say I was in favour (or against) self ID. I’ve never seen a trans person in a changing room in my life, so it’s a bit of a non-issue to me. It’s just hysteria as far as I can see.

Well that's very nice for you. https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/5025960/nhs-fife-suspended-complaint-trans-woman/ It's really not a non-issue. Women are being force to change in front of men, and disciplined if they don't. Do you think that's acceptable? Why don't we just make all changing rooms mixed-sex? They're single-sex for a reason.

If their changing rooms at work don’t afford them the dignity of getting changed in private, they need to consult their union. Nobody should be forced to get changed in front of anybody else, male or female. I would never get my kit off in front of a colleague of either gender.

At last a sensible post .

Yes this and have you ever been in a meeting where a woman had an idea that was roundly ignored or even derided, but then later on a man says the same thing and he's lauded for it?

Someone asked Starmer if he now agreed with Rosie Duffield who he had previously said shouldn't say only women had a cervix, it just wasn't right . His response was that he agreed with Tony Blair, who said pretty much the same thing.

If their changing rooms at work don’t afford them the dignity of getting changed in private, they need to consult their union. Nobody should be forced to get changed in front of anybody else, male or female. I would never get my kit off in front of a colleague of either gender.

@Anonym00se

They may be happy to get changed in front of women. I'm happy to take my clothes off in front of other women. But that choice is being taken from them/us isn't it? Because they/we cannot be sure that the 'woman' in the changing room is actually a bloody woman at all. It could be a man. So, again, women are being made to adapt, Now, your son might be happy to use disabled facilities but other men who claim to be women are not.

It is not a job for women to find a place for these men in our spaces, it is for them to find a place in theirs. If they feel unsafe amongst the men (welcome to how women felt for millennia!) then they need to campaign for their own space. I'll respect their space by not going in it, they should do the same for mine.

Care to offer any examples of Rishi's misogyny? Care to explain how Starmer's actions that have been cited on this thread as examples of his misogyny, aren't in fact misogyny??

No idea to be honest, apart from knowing it definitely WON’T be Conservatives or Reform.

Historically I’ve voted Labour, apart from 2010 when I voted Lib Dem’s (fecking Nick Clegg!). However, I don’t like Keir Starmer and am not convinced on their stance on women’s rights. I don’t feel I could vote Greens either - non-man, floating forced vaginal births etc etc. That leaves Lib Dem’s, but the candidate for them is currently an MP in another area and I can’t find much info about him. I live in a Labour stronghold, so I’m imagining the same again really. When Jeremy Corbyn was in the running I actually wanted to engage with politics and the Labour Party, but I become less and less enthused. The local candidate seems ok, he’s been in since 2019 in this area and he does live here, however I’m not overly keen either. Godknows.

What do you think they are going to do to you? Seriously?
I’m not trying to diminish your feelings, I just can’t see any of the young trans women I have known presenting any danger to anyone, anywhere, ever. If anything they are the vulnerable ones. Your womanhood is under no threat from them and nor are you personally.
This is why when I see people claim that this issue is enough to prevent them from voting for a party that could potentially make even some very minor positive changes to people’s lives, I just don’t buy it. In the balance, making that positive change that could potentially lift a kid out of poverty is just more important than anything else

Unions like this one? You're quite right, no-one should be forced into this. But they are. I don't know if this nurse is in a union, and if so, which one, but many unions do not stand up for their employees in such cases.

@Greywhippet I just can’t see any of the young trans women I have known presenting any danger to anyone, anywhere, ever. If anything they are the vulnerable ones.

Isla Bryson (double rapist), Karen White (multiple rapist, sent to a women's prison, where he committed further assaults), Tiffany Scott (described as one of Scotland's most violent prisoners), Katie Dolatowski (6'5" transwoman who filmed girls in supermaket toilets), Scarlet Blake (murdered a stranger for kicks, tortured a cat), Andrew Miller (abducted and sexually assaulted a child while dressed as a woman - took her into his bed to be "motherly", he said). These are just some of the most famous ones, there are plenty more.

Some trans women are vulnerable (doesn't matter, they're still men; women are not human shields). As for the psychos I've listed above? Vulnerable? Don't make me laugh. I'd rather be poor than meet any of them in a women-only space.

Libdems, we've already got a LD candidate in here and she seems to be doing pretty well, labour don't seem to do well here and I don't want to split the anti-tory vote so going with the safe option.

We've also had zero comms from labour, no leaflets or anything but plenty from LD including a knock on the door so they're proactive and seem to want it at least!

Haven't you just plopped into FWR as the mother of a trans-identified son you now refer to as 'she's? And you can't see the conflict between single sex spaces and 'trans rights'?
Shocked Pikachu face right here 🙄

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 And aside from the violent 'men in frocks' you have the ones infiltrating women's sports. You know, the sports where women are already paid less than men, sponsored less effectively than men, earn less award money than men, get everything less than men. But sure invite the men in frocks into our sports despite it being fact that they are stronger, faster, bigger than women, put Dylan Mulvaney into a sports bra despite having no tits and the only thing that needs supporting is his bollocks, let male swimmers hammer women to the finish in the pool all so some man doesn't have his feelings hurt.

Let women who have been sexually assaulted by multiple men have their smears done by a 'woman' in a nurses uniform complete with a cock. Let women escaping violence from men in women's refuges be 'welcomed' by dick-owning Doris.

Do these people not see that it's not just the fucking toilets that we would like to keep for ourselves?

Lib Dem. It’s the only decent choice. I’d vote labour if it was my option to get the tories out but Lib Dem’s have a good chance in my area.

The LibDems don't want your vote if you are a sex realist.

If you want to vote Tory that’s your business but implying that all transwomen are violent criminals because some are is not the powerful argument you seem to think it is. Some men, some women, some people of all nationalities, creeds and colour are dangerous criminals. Are we going to deny everyone their basic human rights on this basis?

"Are we going to deny everyone their basic human rights on this basis?"

Whose human rights are being denied?

You haven’t read the full thread, have you? It’s all there. Fill your boots.

Probably Tory because our local MP is a nice, decent bloke who has done a lot for our town and is always popping up everywhere and even helps clearing up the verges.

There isn’t really a decent alternative for us and I don’t want to vote Labour.

Deny what basic human rights?

It doesn’t matter if they are criminals or not; they shouldn’t be in women’s spaces if they were born with a penis, even if they are the second coming of Mother Teresa