To think my SIL is over the top for this?

[killingpeeve]

In short, my nephew has been found, alongside a few other boys, to be calling a girl 'butchy' butch. This is their nickname for her and they found it hilarious to call her this. SIL was called into the school by head of year. The boys got nothing but a slap on the wrist, in reality. We suspect because they're all Set 1 (top set) and still in process of doing their mocks.

SIL says this is not enough. And she is punishing my nephew by saying he isn't coming on the family holiday - Which is also the wedding of my sister.

BIL is backing her.

AIBU to think this is too much? By all means yes, the school have been to soft here as a consequence. But, surely this is too much?

It means missing his aunt getting married. She is really upset and cried on the phone to me about this.

Knowing SIL, she is very likely to follow through.

It would mean him staying with his nan. And she would continue onto the holiday as planned with BIL

High chance she will see this thread of course. But the family is really upset. It's a wedding.

He wasn't rewarded with a nice holiday. The wedding and the holiday were already planned and booked. The bride wants him there as planned. But apparently her wishes don't count.

Again, the bride and groom and her family are being punished for his actions. That is entirely illogical.

No, the punishment is hitting the bride where it hurts.

wow "Bridezilla" someone upset because her nephew won't be there?
You sound charming.

All of this!! I think your brother and sil are great parents in their attitude, but I don’t think the punishment is fitting. But they know him best.

I was also wondering why you are focusing on your SIL @killingpeeve - surely your brother is in agreement with her about the punishment, so why are you blaming her?

I wouldn't be surprised if the nephew were quite happy to get out of going to the wedding...

Thing is you can’t teach a kid not to bully by being a bully yourself. And his mother is bullying him. Way worse than he did to this girl. All she is teaching him is she needs to parent with fear and control, excessive punishments, and she’s breeding resentment and dislike.

I tip my hat to her!

I did similar to my son. He hadn't been knuckling down at school, and I warned him that if his mock exam results were terrible, he wouldn't be coming to Florida, where we were going for a wedding. Guess what, his exam results were atrocious, so he stayed home.

It was, in part, the kick up the bum he needed, that and the realisation that he was messing up, big time. HIs actual exam results were the polar opposite. Sometimes, you do have to go nuclear to get the message across.

Yeah as kids love missing out on holidays and being excluded from their immediate family. Relish it.

No, you are right.

Teenagers are usually distraught to miss family weddings, miss holidays with strict parents but being left with a nan where they can do whatever they please at whatever time they like.

Sounds awful.

Why are they being punished because he wont be there. That sounds more illogical to me. Im sure noone would have noticed until this all came out?
How close is this family for one nephew not being there to make such a big impression and totally spoil the whole wedding day.

Absolutely! This 'doing it because they fancy her' rubbish is what leads to the kind of men prevalent in society now, particularly the OLD misogynists, who become abusive to women because they dare to turn them down or just don't fancy them. I've been on the receiving end of this multiple times, so I'm totally Team SIL - bloody good for her for trying to raise a respectful man.

And that poor girl, who swims and goes to the gym and keeps herself fit and active and healthy, being called names for being attractive. What if this bullying is extreme to the point that she stops all the stuff she enjoys because of a bunch of pathetic teenage twats who can't take rejection?

I work in a secondary school - both girls and boys can be unbelievably cruel to each other, and it's totally correct that schools don't punish properly. My friend's clever, lovely, and talented Year 10 daughter in my school has been horrendously bullied because of jealousy and peer pressure and she is often in my office with me - it's heart breaking to see a confident, well-brought up child fall apart because of the attitude of nasty kids who have no consequences.

I have to say SIL’s punishment isn’t one I would use but whilst it is harsh, it’s so much better than saying school have dealt with this and move on.

Ideally, school would be better and your SIL wouldn’t feel she has to take this stance.

I think parents who have kids who bully should take a hardline approach with them and your SIL is clearly doing what she thinks is best.

Her reaction is way over the top. But her kid 🤷‍♀️

I suspect one of two things is happening. Either a) she suggested this in a moment of absolute rage/outrage and doesn't want to row back on it so he learns that she doesn't mean business b) she's got it in mind to relent on the holiday if he shows signs of genuine contrition or other unknown-to-OP things, but won't be bullied out of her consequences by the family. Good for your brother and SIL. Hope it works.

FYI if my nephew hadn't been able to come to our wedding it would have been a shame but in no way would it have "ruined" the day.

OP it’s their son and their choice. I don’t think 15 year olds would care about missing their aunt’s wedding so the real punishment is missing a holiday which sounds fair enough. I don’t think it’s so out of proportion to justify the rest of the family weighing in and making this into a bigger issue than it is.

Taking his phone away and access to Internet will have more impact than missing a family wedding that he’s probably secretly not looking forward to.

It's very OTT, but at the same time, I can't fault her for coming down like an absolute tonne of bricks on him for this. We complain constantly about parents not parenting, and letting their children get away with all sorts of horrible behaviour, and here she is taking it every bit as seriously as anybody could ask. I don't think he will forget this in a hurry.

I think backing down now would be a mistake even if she is privately regretting such a dramatic consequence.

I wish the school had acted appropriately.

(Also, the bride needs to get a grip. She might be "very close" to him but I think the world will continue to spin on its axis if he does not witness her wedding, and perhaps instead she could support the boy's mother in taking his misogynistic and homophobic bullying seriously.)

Same here. There's a lot of excuses being made for his behaviour.

Agree. I am thinking this concern is probably more about how it will look to others that the nephew isn’t there

If asked are they going to have to explain that he isn’t there as punishment for being a bully - doubt it

Except it is apart from the few hours of a wedding

So the rest of the time he gets to have fun while he suffers no consequences for his actions

Plus all the people it's going to upset.

So, @killingpeeve the upset of a young girl, bullied by a mob of boys, is worth nothing?????

You are part of the problem.

Say what now? Setting a punishment for her child that has behaved abhorrently is bullying? Wow!

Far too many teenagers have taken their own lives due to behaviour like this.

I'm team DB and SIL all the way.

I agree with the others who say that it's probably more about him missing the holiday rather than the wedding. How many 15 year old boys really care about a wedding? You see so many MN posts about people not wanting to go to weddings.

Your brother and SIL will know more about this situation than you, you'll only know bits of it and there's probably more to it.

Well done to the both of them.

Your SIL is absolutely right to do this.

Your nephew needs to learn that a comment such as butchy butch to a teenage girl could easily give her lifelong hatred of her body. An eating disorder. Destroyed confidence. Quitting sports to become less muscly. Teenage girls can be cut to their core by this stuff. She now knows that even if people don’t say this stuff, it’s what they may be thinking.

in actual fact, the impact of saying something like this to a teenage girl is worse than punching or kicking her. Physical wounds heal. Mental ones often persist forever.

so him not getting a holiday is far from disproportionate. How about that girl wouldn’t go on holiday as she wouldn’t want to show her body.

id have him watching documentaries about people who’ve died from eating disorders and who have been destroyed by bullying.

I have a boy and girl both older teens. I would be utterly appalled if my ds called someone butchy butch.

aunty whose wedding it is needs to get a grip. Her wedding isn’t impacted by the absence of one nephew.