Biden Trump debate- they must get rid of Biden now?

[molotovcupcakes]

Biden looked so frail and incoherant at times that this must be the end of his Presidency very soon.
How have the Democrats not faced this sooner and selected someone else, I don't understand why they have let this go on for so long.
He had to be helped off the stage by his wife and it seems like elder abuse.

www.politico.com/video/2024/06/28/jill-biden-escorts-joe-biden-off-stage-after-first-presidential-debate-1346575

Totally. Trump will win by default if he doesn't step aside.

Why does the US hardly ever have any candidates under 60/70? Anyone actually know?

I think voters are smarter than being fooled by 'good looks and charisma'. There's a lot of reasons why Canadian voters are getting frustrated with the Trudeau Government and they are to do with real issues like cost of living, crime, immigration, environmental laws which many think are damaging the agrarian economy, infrastructure, experiemtnal surgery on children. These are all issues that Canadian voters in polls have consistently saying they've been worried about since lockdowns ended so I think people will tend to vote on those rather than looks.

I thought it was 1980 as I am an on the cusp Gen x, married to a very old Millennial! I actually do think Gen X and my parents Boomers were more interested in liberal democracies. My parents were young socialists and loved And my mil was a bit of a hippy, they had all these ideals that they were fighting for. I think Gen x were very much anti corporate especially teenagers in the 1990s both in the uk and the us with Grunge movement etc but I think things turned in about 2000 when the dot com millionaire was lauded

And Gen A and Gen Z in western Europe, don't forget. Also central Europe and northern to an extent. If you look at the age bands of supporters of the right wing parties in Germany France Sweden Poland Czechia, the under 30 share has grown quite surprisingly since about 2020.

What beats me is how the hell they ever expected Biden to get through the gruelling campaign at all; last night was just one event but there are much harder things to come

They really do need to invoke the 25th now if he won't go of his own accord, except it's probably too late

www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxxv#:~:text=The%2025th%20Amendment%2C%20proposed%20by,removal%2C%20resignation%2C%20or%20incapacitation.

I don’t know who’s been telling you about this Kamala theory, but it’s not how it works. It’s not the UK, where leaders change in between elections. Presidents stay on for the duration of their term.

The Democrats have not “spent all of their efforts on the charges”. Trump’s charges were brought by the justice departments where the crimes were committed—the State of New York, the State of Georgia, and the federal charges by the US Department of Justice. “The Democrats” don’t get to run the justice system and decide who gets charged with what crimes, just as “The Tories” don’t get to run the justice system and decide who gets charged with what crimes.

I understand my point is shallow but there is no doubt that does hold some power in itself maybe it is down to ageism don’t know.

All those policies you mention have a right wing spin on them that is exactly why we are seeing the demise of the liberal democracy. Trudeau probably best represents that notion well he did but people in Canada don’t want that - why is that, what is a undermining this?

Can somebody please explain to me......

How is it that a country with a population of 333 million can only muster a half-asleep confused pensioner as presidential candidate.

deduct say 25% of the population who aren't eligible to vote .... children, convicts, asylum seekers, illegal immigrants, you have the pick of 249 million people .

OK, given 50% of eligible voters are going to vote for Trump no matter what, that still leaves 124 million people from which to choose a Democratic candidate.

And they chose Biden.

I'm completely baffled .....

I think if the bigger picture is a swing of Canada to the right as well as US we should be worried about that.

Suckers and losers. The only words I remember from watching the debate.

Who can the Democrats call on at this late stage? And how?

It's incredible

Indeed, or, heaven forbid, died?

Biden was dealing with a cold, as am I. I couldn't do a coherent debate in my pjyamas currently.

In his favour, is a lengthy career in politics and as a diplomat. He may not be quick on his feet or silver of tongue, but he is a decent man with serious understanding of policies.

While Trump is a convicted felon.

Oh OK. I didn't know that, thank you.

Anyway I think the causes of the decline of US and UK democracies are as follows, just my opinions:

1. Politicians stopped being deep thinkers who had real jobs and started being careerists with little real world experience who put their careers over representing the voters
2. Too few working class politicians especially from manufacturing, agrarian and service industries
3. Media stopped exploring politics in meaningful ways and started focussing on soundbites and gotchas. For a shocking example watch an interview with Wilson or Thatcher and see how they are given the space and time to thoughtfully discuss policies and economics and the interviewer has the knowledge to dive in deep with them. And that was prime time TV. Now compare it with an interview with Sunak and Starmer from the present day. There has been a steep and alarming decline in intellectual 'meat'
4. Voters are lower information due to point 3 and also to social media.
5. Social media has caused greater political divides so that many voters no longer see themselves as being part of a country but just as part of a tribe that hates and wishes destruction on the other tribe. Which leads to...
6. ....death threats and political assassinations (Cox, Amess) meaning that good people are getting too scared to go into politics
7. Media emphasises superficial things like a candidates looks and mannerism rather than policies and abilities
8. Poor education. Many people know little about the evolution of democracy and how difficult it has been to protect, and what life is like under other systems. Hence some think communism or facism sound reasonable because they haven't learned what these systems are actually like
9. We don't pay our politicians enough and require them to work stupid hours meaning that the brightest and most conscientious in our society would rather go into law, banking, tech, start a company, anything than politics...
10. ...so we get left with grifters and morons.

All of this is in our gift as the public to solve but I think we're too distracted and divided just now.

If Biden died, I think the Vice president is in charge.

If he stood down, there would hav3 to be nominations for new presidential candidates, and I think candidates would have to be chosen, voted on, in each individual state. It’s a huge process and they would be trying to shoehorn it into a few months before the actual election in November

I don't know, I'm from an immigrant working class background myself (parents came here from another country, worked in a factory/dinner lady & cleaner) and from my experience talking to people when I 'go back home' (moved to London to work) is that things like crime, cost of living, decline of manufacturing etc are their chief concerns. They all hate the idea of making children change genders too.

Maybe these are more universal concerns or maybe some working class communities are more right wing than our politicians think, I don't know. It's probably worth bearing in mind that the proper Labour party (ie pre Blair) had socially conservative policies on many issues now described as right wing.

I think this illustrates my points about the decline of democracy quite well because politicans should be ON this stuff and know what voters are concerned with.

I agree on the elder abuse, I wish his family would step.

USA population 2024 just under 342 million and these 2 peaches are all there are for President?? The mind boggles!

Because America would never vote for a black woman in the majority; they know, sadly, that a white man struggling to do the job still has a better chance than her.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Kamala has never been that popular and from the outset, the media parodied her strange laugh and various gaffes. I think a black woman such as Michelle Obama could do really well. She's never shown any inkling of wanting to run but she's strong, experienced but also has a good handle on how to come across as human and not robotic. I never really got any of that from Kamala.

Superb post, GiveMeSpanakopita, but you missed off the point that the sort of decent people we need will go nowhere near politics - and who can blame them

Notable too that those who usually insist "what a load of nonsense, Biden's just got a stutter" are nowhere to be seen, which tell us just how bad this is

He is frail. Speaking as an over 70 myself I believe there should be an age limit for people wielding this sort of power. I don't think we should have a teenager in the White House but there has to be a happy medium somewhere.

As in the UK, a substantial proportion of Americans would prefer a different candidate from both of those on offer. However, regrettably I can see why for many the least worse option is Trump.

The point is that Putin is not America's enemy; at least not an America with Trump as president.

I don't think his motives are altruistic at all! To me it seems like ego, fuelled by Jill and unseen others who are desperately trying to get him over the line.

I watched it all on CNN and even afterwards. there was this shocked hush in the studio even from the Democrat commentators - an almost universal horror at what had just happened.

But then cut to Joe and Jill in a waffle house, with Jill collecting their food order and anxiously looking at him while he answered questions from a few (no doubt) hand-picked reporters. Her over-the-top laughter was the equivalent of 'nothing to see here folks, nothing to see!'

Jill is probably/hopefully one of the loudest voices in his life. She needs to be insisting he step down, not encouraging the continuation of this horrible show with faux praise.

crucify me if you like, but at 78 and 81, they're both stupidly too old to be in politics, and there is a chance either of them could drop dead at a moments notice. ( to clarify, i mean from the stress of the job/campaign trail)

pisses me off that the worst people live longest.