Biden Trump debate- they must get rid of Biden now?

[molotovcupcakes]

Biden looked so frail and incoherant at times that this must be the end of his Presidency very soon.
How have the Democrats not faced this sooner and selected someone else, I don't understand why they have let this go on for so long.
He had to be helped off the stage by his wife and it seems like elder abuse.

www.politico.com/video/2024/06/28/jill-biden-escorts-joe-biden-off-stage-after-first-presidential-debate-1346575

I thought his voice sounded hoarse. It's sad because I think both he and his handlers should have realised that he clearly isn't up to the job anymore. The problem we have now is that it's impossible for him to now win re election. That leaves us with the very unpalatable prospect of Trump.

I work in a defence adjacent job and there's a lot of commentary about how China probably won't invade Taiwan.

They haven't got a tested army, it's notoriously hard to invade an island and while sanctions against Russia have not been completely successful, it is still enough to make them think twice.

Oh please, the non-democrat half of the nation would never. Remember how they stonewalled Obama for his entire 8 years in things like Garland? Another Obama, and a woman with no political career? No chance.

Neither Biden nor Trump are fit for presidency for different reasons. Biden, at least, has a good team around him though. Trump is a disaster for the US, especially women, and for the world.

What I do know is that we've seen him willing to break democracy to stay in power. Last time he failed - which to me only tells him he needs to go further this time to succeed.

Trump was held in check last time by the Generals who saw him for the amoral cunning imbecile that he is, but not this time. He has revenge on his mind for any federal justice department that prosecuted him and will pardon anyone convicted of crimes close to him and will ensure only manipulative sycophants are appointed to the WH.

Remember before Trump was elected, when people said he would start a nuclear war... crash the economy... ruin everything.

Seem to remember the economy was better and there was no nuclear war.

Not saying he's perfect, but at least he can put his own pants on in the morning

And you can't deny that Putin probably looks at Biden and thinks 'today would be a good day to attack'.

And looks at Trump and thinks 'This guy might be as crazy as me!'.

I think people who say Harris is a likely replacement don't know much about Harris.....

Tulsi Gabbard (another woman who was formerly a US politician) said in an interview she believes Harris would take the country to war. No idea if it's true, but it made me question my assumptions about Harris.

Well the rest of the world already know what he is like, it is very obvious. No need to watch the debate to come to that conclusion.

We all wonder what is wrong with Americans, allowing this shit show. Destroying our world.

Its pretty terrifying that the choice is between senility or narcissistic dishonesty.
Whole presidential race seems like a death march, waiting for one of these candidates to die or be declared mentally unfit
Two party/non proportional systems are a mockery of democracy

That's really interesting @Stowickthevast - do you think China has more options (other than an invasion) to put Taiwan under more pressure? I appreciate it's a fairly wide ranging question!

At the moment though, people might vote for Biden and get Harris if Biden becomes unfit and people will take that into account when voting.

Who is Trump's VP candidate going to be?

I read somewhere that Joe Biden’s decision to stand for re-election will be remembered as the single most selfish political decision of all time, and I am inclined to agree.

Yes, possibly one, single good thing that might come out of Trump as president. His volatility and maximum pressure approach would likely make China step down re Taiwan.

Like always, these days there is such polarisation on all issues. Just because Trump is a complete t*at doesn't mean that everything would be worse.

My husband just went to check the betting odds this morning-Gavin Newsome is almost even with Biden odds wise to be the candidate

I’m curious how does this manifest exactly? What does this look like and how are millennials some of whom are in their 40s not responsible in any way?

I do think liberal democracies are in the balance and it is bigger than just the characters look at Justin Trudeau, he lost his by-election. He’s good looking, charismatic, I think he makes a lot of sense when he discusses issues but he still lost. The US surely can produce two candidates that are more appealing than these guys! Well Biden is not the same as Trump but he’s not got enough energy. Trump is not exactly young! I don’t think age matters but the energy levels are important.

Spot on. Democracy is a bit like good Wi-Fi, you don’t miss it until it’s gone.

RBG wouldn't step down at a time Obama could have put another liberal into the SC.
Biden wouldn't step down at a time the party could have assembled a decent enough contender with, crucially, enough time to build support.
And here we are.

He does look impressive on paper.

I lived in the USA in 2012 and 2016. I am not expert, but a couple of things struck me from being there that were not obvious to me before.
The Americans are electing a monarch rather than a Prime Minister.
Biden gives the impression of being a great manager and experienced politician. Trumps comes over as being a terrible and dangerous President.
...But Trump does come over as a President and Biden does not.
Trump comes from central casting as a bad medieval King, Biden would not be cast as a King at all. At best, a dying Monarch who has been manipulated by his far smarter ministers before the true king emerges.

The Democrats (and I have met professionals working for them) have some similarity to Sunak and his supporters.
I heard Sunak's "went without Sky" comments being defended as a question there was no suitable response to. When it was said he could have acknowledged the people who worked for his security and that he has learnt many others did not have that and he wants to improve their opportunities, the apologist said that was not answering the question. The person did not understand what the question was really about and thought people should look at numbers and exact facts.

I had a white young Clinton fan (a rare thing) in 2016 that Clinton is only unpopular for nonsense reasons, and I said to her that the reasons do not matter in when it is genuinely a popularity contest.

Biden could have stopped Trump in 2016 but let Clinton fail instead. I think 2020 was his redemption for that. In 2024, it will 2-1 to Trump if he does not step down.

The other sad truth is there assumption that everyone want to get away from thinking the President has to be an arrogant white man in his position from privilege and old fashioned hierarchies. A lot of people are really OK with all that and they would be furious at Kamala Harris who is brown, female and "only" in that position from being capable and hard working.

As always, the opportunity for the far right to rise is presented on a silver platter by the alternative being a joke.

If I were American, I’d probably hope to vote democrat for someone like Obama. But the democrats have someone elderly who frankly cannot live without support. You’d really have to think twice before voting for Biden, even if your politics aligned with his. You’d be voting for someone not all there. The fact that the democrats have not replaced him is a terrible reflection on the party - how can they be trusted to run the country if they can’t even present a candidate who is fit to do the job?

What a bloody stupid world we have become.

When you say how does this manifest, do you mean the deterioration of democracy and the causes of that, or what must be done to revive it?

If people in their 40s are classed as millennials then I include them yes. I thought the millennial generation started with those born in the mid 1980s.

The younger people in the US are more right wing and Conservative with their views on religion and abortion etc. it is the same in Canada, I saw a clip where Trudeau was debating a woman’s rights to choose with a very traditional young man that looked no older than 20. It begs the question, what happened to young people challenging the establishment, Trudeau is Gen X!

If it's Trump v Harris then the polls show that Trump would win convincingly:

www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-harris

Harris isnt the answer. She is out of her depth I feel she was put in place because and anyway the Democrats are so far up themselves they think Biden is the answer against TRUMP! Why on earth do they think that??

Also I read an article that said the biggest issue that they have removing Biden is that he thinks he is doing a great job. His wife helping him off the stage was very sad. I also think he has a massive ego and thinks if not me then who??

The US have brought this all on themselves. I also wonder why Biden agreed to a debate like this? I guess he felt like he didnt have an choice but the Democrats have had plenty of warning about Biden's state of health and have chosen to ignore it.

The muted mics actually helped Trump I think. He didnt come across as too shouty but it didnt help Biden because when it was his turn to speak he came across as rambling and in certain parts didnt seem to know what day it was.

A more chilling precedent is the Hungarian disgraced left-wing leader who would not step down and managed to give the unpopular (but less so) Victor Orban a massive super majority (in a country where that is a real thing rather than a Tory election phantom).

It’s frustrating people focus on Biden’s age. There are plenty of extremely fit, healthy and razor sharp people in their 80s. And there are much younger people who are slow and confused.

It’s the person people should focus on, not the age of the person. That’s ageist.

And there’s a tendency to focus on the negatives about age (slow, doddery, might die soon) rather than the positives (e.g. extensive personal and professional experience leading to greater insight and wisdom). Though again not universally applicable, e.g. Trump.

As for elections, I’m finding both UK and US totally depressing and uninspiring.