David Tennant: women should "shut up"

[jacksonlamb]

As a (now ex) David Tennant fan I was so disappointed to hear his speech yesterday. Whilst talking about trans rights he told his audience that he wanted a world where "we wake up and Kemi Badenoch doesn't exist anymore. I don't wish ill of her, I just wish her to shut up."

(There's some devious doublespeak here: if you wish someone didn't exist, you obviously wish them ill).

But more importantly, how dare he tell women to shut up about women's rights. Yet again powerful and privileged men tell women what they are and are not allowed to say. They must shut up whilst men speak. Their views are wrong, men are right.

Anyone has the right to believe that the rights of trans people are more important than the rights of women (although I believe this is profoundly wrong). What they do not have the right to do is bully, belittle and threaten women who disagree with them; who are trying to protect their hard fought rights.

I despair.

I agree it’s not suitable language and I’ve never denied that. I have said though that I think David Tennant meant it in a humorous way, to explain why he may have said it. I’m sorry it’s upset you so much.

You probably need to educate yourself then.

David Tennant said he didn’t wish Kemi Badenoch harm though - he said he didn’t wish her ill.

Can you explain how please? I’d be interested to know what I can read/watch to learn more about this. What do I need to know about this?

It hasn’t just upset me - it’s upset millions of people that do not want to live in a racist country full of hate and division.

I can’t imagine why any woman of colour would even consider going into politics with such despicable attacks made on them daily - hourly. You do know they need 247 protection? How can that be in 2024!

We need more representation not less.

David is the very epitome of white male privilege.

I was referencing the post quoted - not Tennant

I don't think so. They're both prominent politicians; being challenged for their views is part of the job.

Wishing someone would not exist does not match with this claim he wishes her no ill. What utter bullshit. What kind of ending does he wish for her then? A painless one? Smoke and mirrors. Veiled violent threats that are racist and offensive are never ever acceptable.

But that’s not what happened and you know it. Lots of faux ignorance on here on what constitutes racism and sexism.

We're quick to complain about racism , sexism, homophobia, but it's not as bad as people make out. If we're going to be more cohesive, we have to be more relaxed about petty incidents and not find insult where non exists.

-Kemi Badenoch

For someone who claims not to do identity politics, she was very quick to engage in some identity politics.

Criticising a politician isn't sexist. I think it's both sexist and racist to suggest that you shouldn't hold someone to account because of their sex or background. We should all be treated equally.

There's no history of racism from David Tennant and telling someone they should shut up because of their political views isn't racist. He should have chosen his words more carefully. I think we can all agree on that.

What does constitute racism and sexism, in your view? From what you’re saying, it sounds like it’s racist and sexist if you disagree with or criticise a woman of colour who has different views to you. That not at all what racism or sexism means though.

Broadly, racism and sexism are when you attack or insult someone because of their race or their sex, and there is no evidence of that happening with the Suella Braverman/Kemi Badenoch incidents we’ve just been discussing.

Telling a woman of colour to shut up and not exist is racism, pure and simple. End of. It is aggravated by the fact he is a white male of privilege.

If you can’t see how offensive that is, that is your problem not mine.

Both could have said exactly the same thing to outspoken white male politicians.

No faux ignorance; I'm simply not seeing any racism or sexism.

We'll have to agree to differ.

I agree with @Bromptotoo . If Kemi Badenoch took this incident to an employment tribunal or court, they’d not find any issues with it @Meetingofminds.

You need to take at least one training course in unconscious bias and what constitutes racism in today’s world.

Maybe you are on benefits and have no access to training and education but you could google it, and discover for yourself how misguided you are. Your posts are embarrassing and ignorant.

Not exist is more than disagreeing with views

The standard shouldn’t be a tribunal anyway. Black female politicians already get more abuse

Not existing and shut up just adds to it

Really? So say, in your example, in a hypothetical meeting where several white people, men and women, had the same view as a Black, female member of staff, if some one said ' shut up, I wish I could wake up and you didn't exist anymore' that would not constitute racial and sexual harassment?

I agree. I think there's a contempt, and also almost a disbelief that black female politicians hold the positions they do, a subconscious feeling that they shouldn't have power. I think that's where the 'shouldn't exist' comes from.

He didn't criticise her. He told her to shut up and that he wished she didn't exist. That is not engaging in a discussion about why she is wrong. It's telling her to shut up because he is talking and he is right.

I find your views extraordinary. We've butted heads before where you've sympathised with the far right. You also hold very strong negative opinions on immigration and asylum seekers. You're currently on another thread on foodbanks telling people that are in absolute poverty, that they need to take more responsibility and not be so frivolous with their money.

Now you're lecturing people on unconscious bias.

I think, especially amongst the Hard Left, male and female there is a disbelief that Black people could possibly have independent thought and decide to be Tories. This is the only thing I agree with the Conservatives on, and I think Suella Braverman is a thoroughly nasty piece of work, but I don't think she is a ' coconut' or "race traitor ' or she is so stupid she can't think for herself and has chosen the wrong White people to listen to.

I see that too, it’s the contempt that I find sickening.

Labour seem to think women are just there for window dressing only ( penis optional) and shouldn’t actually have any opinions and independent thoughts or rights. I imagine this is why they have never ever had a female leader - much less one of colour - that speaks volumes in 2024.

I really dislike the phrase Hard Left, as it’s usually used as a stick to beat people with who vote left. However, I agree with you that some people - particularly on the left - have the views you mention here, and I don’t agree with that.

It was a terrible choice of words from him. The only thing to excuse it - that I think of - is that he felt passionate about what he was talking about, so he said those words in the heat of the moment, and that he meant those words humorously.