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David Tennant: women should "shut up"

1000 replies

jacksonlamb · 26/06/2024 13:36

As a (now ex) David Tennant fan I was so disappointed to hear his speech yesterday. Whilst talking about trans rights he told his audience that he wanted a world where "we wake up and Kemi Badenoch doesn't exist anymore. I don't wish ill of her, I just wish her to shut up."

(There's some devious doublespeak here: if you wish someone didn't exist, you obviously wish them ill).

But more importantly, how dare he tell women to shut up about women's rights. Yet again powerful and privileged men tell women what they are and are not allowed to say. They must shut up whilst men speak. Their views are wrong, men are right.

Anyone has the right to believe that the rights of trans people are more important than the rights of women (although I believe this is profoundly wrong). What they do not have the right to do is bully, belittle and threaten women who disagree with them; who are trying to protect their hard fought rights.

I despair.

OP posts:
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24
CantDealwithChristmas · 27/06/2024 08:08

Acapulco12 · 27/06/2024 07:24

I agree it’s not suitable language and I’ve never denied that. I have said though that I think David Tennant meant it in a humorous way, to explain why he may have said it. I’m sorry it’s upset you so much.

There was absolutely nothing in his tone, facial expression or body language, nor in his half hearted attempt to backtrack, that suggested he was making a joke.

When people are intending to make jokes or be humorous or ironical, they always show it with their tone and body language - whether adopting certain gestures, postures or a pronounced deadpan expression. This is a well-researched topic amongst behavoural and evolutionary psychologists (some mammals do it too to indicate an intent to play!). This would especially be the case for someone who has recieved professional training in stage and screen acting such as David Tennant. We can also see from his previous comic roles that when he is giving a humorous performance his gestures are fairly fluid and large, not jerky and angry as they were on stage at the PGBT Awards.

I therefore feel very confident in concluding that he was not trying to say what he said in a humourous way.

Acapulco12 · 27/06/2024 08:10

DramaLlamaBangBang · 27/06/2024 07:52

Really? So say, in your example, in a hypothetical meeting where several white people, men and women, had the same view as a Black, female member of staff, if some one said ' shut up, I wish I could wake up and you didn't exist anymore' that would not constitute racial and sexual harassment?

That wasn’t my example though. I was talking about this specific example with David Tennant, which is very different to the example you’re mentioning here.

TheKeatingFive · 27/06/2024 08:14

There was absolutely nothing in his tone, facial expression or body language, nor in his half hearted attempt to backtrack, that suggested he was making a joke.

Exactly

Chickenuggetsticks · 27/06/2024 08:17

horseyhorsey17 · 26/06/2024 14:20

It's one woman, and that woman is vile, and no friend to anyone except Kemi Badenoch. She's just dogwhistling to the GC crowd because she thinks it'll help her be leader of the Tories in the future. I wish she'd shut up too.

Er except pretty much everyone knows that transwomen are men. It’s not a controversial belief at all really. I doubt its a dog whistle it’s just someone being connected to material reality.

Chickenuggetsticks · 27/06/2024 08:18

I think the reason that Kemi and her defenders have been pointing out that she’s black is precisely because of the use of identity politics by her critics. She’s pointing out the hypocrisy.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/06/2024 08:19

Exactly.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 27/06/2024 08:19

Bloody hell. I wish Kemi Badenoch would shut up too.

AlisonDonut · 27/06/2024 08:23

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 27/06/2024 08:19

Bloody hell. I wish Kemi Badenoch would shut up too.

Can you just confirm that in order to be nice, you want her to cease to exist? Which isn't very nice?

pointythings · 27/06/2024 08:28

AlisonDonut · 27/06/2024 08:23

Can you just confirm that in order to be nice, you want her to cease to exist? Which isn't very nice?

It's been made clear that the intent of the comment everyone is frothing about was 'cease to exist as a politician with any influence '. Kemi can live a long happy life in obscurity as far as I'm concerned. As a politician I want her to fuck off, along with the whole sorry toxic corrupt mess that is our government.

Not long now.

Chickenuggetsticks · 27/06/2024 08:28

Also women, ALL women should be allowed to talk about their rights regardless of party affiliation. Given that Badenoch is the womens and equalities minister I’d be a bit surprised if she hadn’t formed an opinion on it by virtue of her sex or her actual job.

Men telling women to shut up whenever women don’t just nod along in agreement to their own oppression or erasure is par for course. Why the fuck wouldn’t a woman ANY woman have a view on the encroachment of men into their awards, services, sports, safe spaces. Thats what he wants, he wants women to shut up so men can do as they please. Prick, utter prick. Fantastic actor but just such a stupid twat.

Chickenuggetsticks · 27/06/2024 08:29

I also think if a tory had suggested they would like someone to cease to exist the howls of outrage at the inhumanity would be deafening. Be kind, but only to people like us.

EasternStandard · 27/06/2024 08:30

pointythings · 27/06/2024 08:28

It's been made clear that the intent of the comment everyone is frothing about was 'cease to exist as a politician with any influence '. Kemi can live a long happy life in obscurity as far as I'm concerned. As a politician I want her to fuck off, along with the whole sorry toxic corrupt mess that is our government.

Not long now.

‘Frothing’

Maybe someone will say similar about other groups not existing. Not just female black politicians which seems to be fine.

ScribblingPixie · 27/06/2024 08:33

pointythings · 27/06/2024 08:28

It's been made clear that the intent of the comment everyone is frothing about was 'cease to exist as a politician with any influence '. Kemi can live a long happy life in obscurity as far as I'm concerned. As a politician I want her to fuck off, along with the whole sorry toxic corrupt mess that is our government.

Not long now.

Well no, no one except David Tennant can make clear what his intent was. Everyone else is just giving their opinion.

Pelham678 · 27/06/2024 08:34

DramaLlamaBangBang · 27/06/2024 07:55

He didn't criticise her. He told her to shut up and that he wished she didn't exist. That is not engaging in a discussion about why she is wrong. It's telling her to shut up because he is talking and he is right.

Absolutely.

I've experienced a lot of 'you should just shut up' kind of words from men who don't like women having opinions. I can only imagine what it's like being a black woman but I've seen the contempt thrown at Diane Abbott that just isn't shown to women like Ann Widdecombe to know that it's a different level.

As PP have said it was not said humorously at all but with anger and contempt and it's completely exposed the real DT underneath the cheeky chappy persona he normally shows. I'm not surprised he's married a much younger woman who probably doesn't challenge him.

CantDealwithChristmas · 27/06/2024 08:36

Chickenuggetsticks · 27/06/2024 08:18

I think the reason that Kemi and her defenders have been pointing out that she’s black is precisely because of the use of identity politics by her critics. She’s pointing out the hypocrisy.

Yep. When I recently evinced the opinion that Diane Abbott is way past her political sell-by date and was actively harming Labour more than helping it, I was accused of being racist. But I wasn't criticising Abbott because she's Black, I was criticising her because she's an antisemite whose politics remain stuck in the 70s.

The cries of hypocrisy from the pro-DT people on this thread and elsewhere are in fact cries of befuddled rage that the toxic politics of identity can be used against them.

But it's more than that. DT's comments were deeply misogynistic but also hinge on the unspoken belief that only the 'right kind of minority people' deserve to benefit from identity politics. That is, only Black, brown (like me), gay, disabled etc people who toe the line and bow down to our progressive idpol masters (who mostly happen to be white, posh and male for some reason). I regard it as nothing less than colonisation, albeit of the psychological kind. Progressives want to 'help' us minorities, but only if we show slavish (and I use the word slavish deliberately) gratitude and obedience.

Those of us who desist - who decide we like and can benefit from capitalism, conservatism, entreprenurialism, rad feminism, gender crit thoughts, or anything else that idpol folks don't like, are subject to even more vicious abuse than people from the majority ethnicity and culture. We have betrayed our masters! But don't we know we owe everything to our kind masters? We are traitors; we should not exist.

This is why the most rancourous abuse gets reserved for the likes of Thomas Sowell, Trevor Phillips, James Cleverly, Suella Braverman and Kemi Badenoch.

That is also why 'transwomen' are the sacred caste - precisely because they are privileged white men like our idpol masters.

So: what DT said is misogynistic. It is sexist. it is racist. It's misogyny, sexism and racism filtered through the complex lens of angry and bitter idpol progressives who only love minorities as long as they stay in their place and toe the line.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/06/2024 08:36

It's been made clear that the intent of the comment everyone is frothing about was 'cease to exist as a politician with any influence '

No it hasn't, hence him adding on the bit about "not wishing her ill". He realised how bad it sounded, after he said it. He can fuck off, the arrogant little tosser.

ilovesooty · 27/06/2024 08:36

pointythings · 27/06/2024 08:28

It's been made clear that the intent of the comment everyone is frothing about was 'cease to exist as a politician with any influence '. Kemi can live a long happy life in obscurity as far as I'm concerned. As a politician I want her to fuck off, along with the whole sorry toxic corrupt mess that is our government.

Not long now.

Exactly. She's one of a list of Tory politicians I'd like to see return to obscurity after the election. Unfortunately she may well hold her seat. On the bright side, if she's elected as Tory leader, keeping the party to the right isn't going to help their chances of returning to power.

Meetingofminds · 27/06/2024 08:37

CantDealwithChristmas · 27/06/2024 08:36

Yep. When I recently evinced the opinion that Diane Abbott is way past her political sell-by date and was actively harming Labour more than helping it, I was accused of being racist. But I wasn't criticising Abbott because she's Black, I was criticising her because she's an antisemite whose politics remain stuck in the 70s.

The cries of hypocrisy from the pro-DT people on this thread and elsewhere are in fact cries of befuddled rage that the toxic politics of identity can be used against them.

But it's more than that. DT's comments were deeply misogynistic but also hinge on the unspoken belief that only the 'right kind of minority people' deserve to benefit from identity politics. That is, only Black, brown (like me), gay, disabled etc people who toe the line and bow down to our progressive idpol masters (who mostly happen to be white, posh and male for some reason). I regard it as nothing less than colonisation, albeit of the psychological kind. Progressives want to 'help' us minorities, but only if we show slavish (and I use the word slavish deliberately) gratitude and obedience.

Those of us who desist - who decide we like and can benefit from capitalism, conservatism, entreprenurialism, rad feminism, gender crit thoughts, or anything else that idpol folks don't like, are subject to even more vicious abuse than people from the majority ethnicity and culture. We have betrayed our masters! But don't we know we owe everything to our kind masters? We are traitors; we should not exist.

This is why the most rancourous abuse gets reserved for the likes of Thomas Sowell, Trevor Phillips, James Cleverly, Suella Braverman and Kemi Badenoch.

That is also why 'transwomen' are the sacred caste - precisely because they are privileged white men like our idpol masters.

So: what DT said is misogynistic. It is sexist. it is racist. It's misogyny, sexism and racism filtered through the complex lens of angry and bitter idpol progressives who only love minorities as long as they stay in their place and toe the line.

^^ this 100%

GrammarTeacher · 27/06/2024 08:37

If you think he's only attacking a black woman over this you really haven't been paying attention

EasternStandard · 27/06/2024 08:38

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/06/2024 08:36

It's been made clear that the intent of the comment everyone is frothing about was 'cease to exist as a politician with any influence '

No it hasn't, hence him adding on the bit about "not wishing her ill". He realised how bad it sounded, after he said it. He can fuck off, the arrogant little tosser.

Of course
If that’s the level of ‘debate’ people are applauding it can easily be applied to anyone to not exist

Cheerleading this guy won’t help when it’s just another down level in public discourse

Feels good to lash out I suppose but it’ll just come back at other groups

MarkWithaC · 27/06/2024 08:44

Aladdinzane · 26/06/2024 17:23

No one is making you "cowed into silence".

They just don't listen to you because there are far more important issues.

Why 'you'? The poster isn't talking about just herself; she says 'women'.
How about Kathleen Stock, forced to resign after more than 600 academics signed a letter condemning her 'transphobia', and men kept turning up at her workplace, shouting, graffitiing and threatening her?
To give just one example.

EasternStandard · 27/06/2024 08:46

MarkWithaC · 27/06/2024 08:44

Why 'you'? The poster isn't talking about just herself; she says 'women'.
How about Kathleen Stock, forced to resign after more than 600 academics signed a letter condemning her 'transphobia', and men kept turning up at her workplace, shouting, graffitiing and threatening her?
To give just one example.

Dr Cass another

People listened here and in other countries

Luckily she didn’t follow pp advice

MarkWithaC · 27/06/2024 08:49

It's kind of interesting that he used the idea of KB 'not existing', when the similar cry of 'denying our existence' is so heavily used in the TRA playbook.
That's not OK, but it's OK for TRAs to say they wish people didn't exist (however 'humorously' they meant it)?

Chickenuggetsticks · 27/06/2024 08:51

CantDealwithChristmas · 27/06/2024 08:36

Yep. When I recently evinced the opinion that Diane Abbott is way past her political sell-by date and was actively harming Labour more than helping it, I was accused of being racist. But I wasn't criticising Abbott because she's Black, I was criticising her because she's an antisemite whose politics remain stuck in the 70s.

The cries of hypocrisy from the pro-DT people on this thread and elsewhere are in fact cries of befuddled rage that the toxic politics of identity can be used against them.

But it's more than that. DT's comments were deeply misogynistic but also hinge on the unspoken belief that only the 'right kind of minority people' deserve to benefit from identity politics. That is, only Black, brown (like me), gay, disabled etc people who toe the line and bow down to our progressive idpol masters (who mostly happen to be white, posh and male for some reason). I regard it as nothing less than colonisation, albeit of the psychological kind. Progressives want to 'help' us minorities, but only if we show slavish (and I use the word slavish deliberately) gratitude and obedience.

Those of us who desist - who decide we like and can benefit from capitalism, conservatism, entreprenurialism, rad feminism, gender crit thoughts, or anything else that idpol folks don't like, are subject to even more vicious abuse than people from the majority ethnicity and culture. We have betrayed our masters! But don't we know we owe everything to our kind masters? We are traitors; we should not exist.

This is why the most rancourous abuse gets reserved for the likes of Thomas Sowell, Trevor Phillips, James Cleverly, Suella Braverman and Kemi Badenoch.

That is also why 'transwomen' are the sacred caste - precisely because they are privileged white men like our idpol masters.

So: what DT said is misogynistic. It is sexist. it is racist. It's misogyny, sexism and racism filtered through the complex lens of angry and bitter idpol progressives who only love minorities as long as they stay in their place and toe the line.

As another brown woman I’d have to agree, the only acceptable minority is the one that toes the line. No real belief in agency, if we veer from the norm it must because we are aping white people or because we have been brainwashed. The whole coconut thing is precisely about that, it’s enforced conformity. I’ve got shit from people in my own community for living how I please (moved out before I was married etc) I have no time for this bollocks. I don’t have weird feelings about peoples skin colour, I don’t place expectations on them because of it and I’d really rather not be on the receiving end of it either. I don’t care if you are some religious nutter from my own community or a white progressive, I’m not interested.

The racism of believing, genuinely believing that the colour of your skin should dictate your politics or beliefs is actually insane.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/06/2024 08:53

It's kind of interesting that he used the idea of KB 'not existing', when the similar cry of 'denying our existence' is so heavily used in the TRA playbook.
That's not OK, but it's OK for TRAs to say they wish people didn't exist (however 'humorously' they meant it)?

Exactly. There wasn't any humour involved, either.

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