David Tennant: women should "shut up"

[jacksonlamb]

As a (now ex) David Tennant fan I was so disappointed to hear his speech yesterday. Whilst talking about trans rights he told his audience that he wanted a world where "we wake up and Kemi Badenoch doesn't exist anymore. I don't wish ill of her, I just wish her to shut up."

(There's some devious doublespeak here: if you wish someone didn't exist, you obviously wish them ill).

But more importantly, how dare he tell women to shut up about women's rights. Yet again powerful and privileged men tell women what they are and are not allowed to say. They must shut up whilst men speak. Their views are wrong, men are right.

Anyone has the right to believe that the rights of trans people are more important than the rights of women (although I believe this is profoundly wrong). What they do not have the right to do is bully, belittle and threaten women who disagree with them; who are trying to protect their hard fought rights.

I despair.

Life is made up of difference. People have different opinions and interpret things differently. I wish the Tories didn't exist. That doesn't mean I want to bomb parliament or for a sniper to take them all out. Should he have chosen his words more carefully? Probably. Does he want Kemi dead? Highly unlikely.

100% right, and very well expressed.

TRA's just don’t want to believe that being gender critical doesn’t automatically mean you "hate" trans people or want to "erase them" or "deny their existence". Or maybe the TRA's just don’t care if it’s true or not. It’s much easier to portray themselves as permanent victims and people who have different opinions as hate-filled bigots.

You can keep trying to excuse it, I doubt anyone is convinced.

I don't think he should have said it, but everyone has someone they wish didn't exist. Most of us just keep it as an "inside thought".

It's like those people that spout on about how they respect everyone. No they don't, there are people we all have a lack of respect for.

But you don't publicly wish someone out of existence.

I'm sure no one will remember this in a couple of days because it's a storm in a teacup.

Hmm, we will see

I didn't interpret what he said to mean that he wants her dead. No longer exist as a minister was how I interpreted it. Poor choice of words perhaps.

This news with David Tennant really reminds me of Gary Lineker’s criticism of Suella Braverman on Twitter last year.

Both of these men are fairly well-known, have the right (like we all do) to say what they think and (in my view) have put across their opinion of a fairly controversial politician in a polite, reasonably measured way.

I think it’s a sign of a healthy democracy, when we can get criticise or question politicians’ language or views, whatever political party they’re from. I think both Kemi Badenoch and Suella Braverman have frequently expressed very inflammatory views, and it’s important for people to point out that their position gives them a lot of power and responsibility, which they need to bear in mind and use appropriately.

So in summary, I support both Gary Lineker’s and David Tennant’s decision and rights to speak out as they have, and I think this should be encouraged.

Even if it means these women might be attacked and killed because some of the activists are so violent and extreme?

You don’t think they bear any responsibility at all?

Democracy I might also add does not and should never stretch to RACISM.

Your support of racist, misogynistic attacks on black and brown wonen is quite repulsive because that’s what your view boils down to. Racist attacks singling out deliberately black women.

@Acapulco12
Has Badenoch ever said she wanted someone to no longer exist? And if she had, would you see that as "polite and reasonably measured" or if she said it would it be an example of her "inflammatory views"?

I don’t see how I’ve been racist in my post - or how Gary Lineker’s or David Tennant’s comments were racist either.

I agree the bit about wanting Kemi Badenoch to no longer exist wasn’t a good choice of words, but it was clearly humorously meant, and I think I would see that intention regardless of whoever said it (David Tennant, Kemi Badenoch or anyone else).

Braverman has quite rightly been critisised for many of her views. Calling pro Palestinian marches, 'hate marches', saying that homelessness is a 'lifestyle choice ', her fanatical devotion to the Rwanda scheme, dehumanising language towards asylum seekers and immigrants.

We should be allowed to hold politicians to account without being accused of being racist or wishing them harm.

@Acapulco12 It's an interesting feature of the gender debate that you can make an innocuous comment in favour of women's rights and be told you are denying trans people's right to exist, and simultaneously someone can wish you out of existence and that be an innocuous comment.

Absolutely. I completely agree.

Yes we should be able to hold them to account in a civilised way, but sadly David and fucking Gary didn’t do that! They choose to use words like shouldn’t exist. They choose to silence those black women instead. That is the issue! You should never be allowed to be racist and misogynistic!! WTF!

And this is Labour all over, they come out with the ‘correct’ sound bites but when it comes to it they are a deeply racist, misogynistic party. Look at how they treated Diane Abbott! FFS. It’s disgusting.

I agree that we should be able to hold politicians to account for their positions.

I would argue that telling the minister for women and equalities that they should 'shut up' when it comes to speaking out for women's need for single sex services is not 'holding to account'.

Its trying to silence women's voices in a deeply misogynistic way

It’s not racist to criticise the views of someone who is a different skin colour or race to you.

It is clearly racist to suggest that someone has specific views or behaves in a certain way because of their skin colour (whether they are white or black).

However, it’s not racist at all to criticise someone’s views if they are a different skin colour or race to you. If this was racist, most people would never be able to have debates or question each other’s views, as our society is so diverse and made up of so many people from different races and backgrounds and with different skin colours.

David Tennnant spoke about not wanting Kemi Badenoch to exist, and I agree he should have probably used a more polite choice of words, but I also think it was clear his words had a humorous intention. Gary Lineker used a much more polite tone and words when he tweeted about Suella Braverman’s policies last year.

It is absolutely racist to say to a black woman she needs to ‘shut up’ and not exist. Have you no idea the impact that will have on a woman of colour? Are you that stupid that yelling that someone ‘should not exist’ will have given the history??????

Of course it is revolting - unforgivable language. And deepky racist veiled language. He knew exactly what he was saying. I hope he never works again.

I don’t think it’s a particular feature of the transgender debate, specifically. I just think it’s because it sounds much worse and more serious if you appear to be wishing ill on a big group of people and on just one person.

Perhaps you should calm down.

Lineker has been vocal on the plight of asylum seekers and even had refugees in his home. He criticised Braverman on her inflammatory language and said it was like something out of the 30s. He was critical of the way asylum seekers were being treated.

He said nothing racist to Braverman. She was 'singled out' because of her views which many didn't agree with.

The Tories accepted funds from a man who said he wanted to shoot Diane Abbott.

I'm not seeing the relevance of the men's skin colour and wealth or the race of two prominent Conservative politicians neither of whom are shrinking violets when it comes to courting controversy.

Tenant and Lineker have publicly disagreed with their stance on matters of public policy.

That's all.

That’s what all bullies say, it’s just a joke. Except no one is laughing.