David Tennant: women should "shut up"

[jacksonlamb]

As a (now ex) David Tennant fan I was so disappointed to hear his speech yesterday. Whilst talking about trans rights he told his audience that he wanted a world where "we wake up and Kemi Badenoch doesn't exist anymore. I don't wish ill of her, I just wish her to shut up."

(There's some devious doublespeak here: if you wish someone didn't exist, you obviously wish them ill).

But more importantly, how dare he tell women to shut up about women's rights. Yet again powerful and privileged men tell women what they are and are not allowed to say. They must shut up whilst men speak. Their views are wrong, men are right.

Anyone has the right to believe that the rights of trans people are more important than the rights of women (although I believe this is profoundly wrong). What they do not have the right to do is bully, belittle and threaten women who disagree with them; who are trying to protect their hard fought rights.

I despair.

Exactly. No child is 'born in the wrong body'. There is no right or wrong way to be a girl or a boy. All children should be cherished for themselves and assured they are perfect just the way they are.

It feels kinda extraordinary that this could be seen as controversial in 2024.

I’m no fan of Badenoch. Her brand of dog whistle politics is awful. However, the optics of a white male wishing a black woman out of existence are terrible . Shades of a Tory donor who said awful things Diane Abbot.

Wishing someone out of existence (what David Tennant said about Kemi Badenoch) is not at all the same as saying you’d like to shoot someone (which is what the Tory donor, Frank. Hester, said he’d like to do to Diane Abbott).

He didn’t say that all though. He said he supports people being who they want to be as long as they’re not harming anyone else. He didn’t deny that people have been harmed. I don’t think you’re being fair here, because you’re not reporting what he said fairly.

I think this is the crux of the misunderstandings and misconceptions.

No GC women I have ever spoken to think this. No one is claiming that most trans women are a risk. That misses the point spectacularly.

Think of it this way: most men are decent. Most men don’t sexually assault women. And yet we keep men out of single sex spaces….why?

Because we don’t know which men are dangerous. Women are physically vulnerable and there is no way to tell which men are safe and which ones present a danger. So we keep them all out of designated single sex spaces where we are at our most vulnerable - bathrooms, changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards etc.

This same logic applies to trans women. They have male characteristics and the overwhelming majority still have a penis.

Of course the majority of trans women aren’t dangerous. We know that. But as male bodied individuals who, according to stats, retain the same patterns of offending as the biological male group, we don’t know what trans women are safe. So they all need to stay put - just like other bodies with a penis.

Women have been assaulted and attacked by trans women in spaces that were supposed to be safe. One woman attacked is one woman too many. Women are not a shield, and increasing our risk to protect trans women from other male bodied people is not an acceptable solution. Our spaces aren’t available to anyone who fancies identifying into them. We have single sex spaces for our safety, our protection.

And of course, none of this addresses the other issues. Women who have been raped or subjected to domestic violence - many only feel safe in single sex facilities. Muslim women can only access single sex spaces. By allowing male bodied trans identifying people in - ie/trans women - you are making all of those facilities inaccessible to these women. Theyre being forced out of their own spaces to make male bodied individuals feel more comfortable and included.

I think the point that gets missed is that we don’t hate trans people. Genuinely, crack on. Identify however they want and be happy. This isn’t about trans people, this is about women. Women’s spaces and women’s rights. We have had to fight hard for any semblance of equality - and now we’re having our rights and safety removed to appease male bodied people. Why can no one ever put us first? Why are women always the ones expected to step aside? Why don’t our feelings and our safety matter too?

I would 100% actively support the trans community in creating a third space, a separate sports category etc. Absolutely we understand what it’s like to be at the mercy of violent and intimidating men so it’s completely understandable that a gender non-conforming male bodied individual may feel uncomfortable with men. I would cheerlead loudly for any trans community fighting for a third space because that would demonstrate some care, thought, and consideration towards women. Because presently there’s fuck all of that coming from TRAs, and that includes Mr Tennant and his shitty T-shirts.

Also just to pick up on this, there are plenty of women who have been harmed as @dougalfromthemagicroundabout outlined. But Tennant and his cronies aren’t interested in that. Any women claiming any kind of harm are slammed as bigots and in the case of Tennant, described as daleks.

No one cares about women being harmed, only harm done to any trans person.

Of course we don’t want trans people harmed, but we actually matter too. And it would be helpful if Tennant acknowledged the harm that has and continues to take place. There’s even been great harm done to kids, as Cass outlined.

So how does his vitriol against women (seen on other occasions, not just against Kemi) and kids sit with his mantra of “no harm”? We don’t matter and he’s not interested in our harm, just as long as trans folk get to do what they want and THEY aren’t harmed.

Its genuinely great that people want to be kind but you can’t stick your fingers in your ears when women point out the harm that’s being done - and that’s what Tennant is doing.

She doesn't. Survey after survey demonstrates this.

Why is it so hard for people to realise it's because she's minister for equalities NOT her colour. He doesn't attack JKR/KS because he doesn't go online and doesn't see them as having power over his and his family's lives. KB does (or rather did). It's not hard.

Women have been assaulted and attacked by trans women in spaces that were supposed to be safe. One woman attacked is one woman too many. Women are not a shield, and increasing our risk to protect trans women from other male bodied people is not an acceptable solution. Our spaces aren’t available to anyone who fancies identifying into them. We have single sex spaces for our safety, our protection.

This.

All those advocating to allow any man who wants into women's spaces - because that is what you're doing, there is no test for 'trans' - how many women are you happy to accept as collateral damage in this plan? Let's have a number.

Its genuinely great that people want to be kind but you can’t stick your fingers in your ears when women point out the harm that’s being done - and that’s what Tennant is doing.

Kindness needs to extend to everyone. Not just the cause du jour.

The Conservative party's biggest donor Frank Hester, told colleagues that looking at Diane Abbott makes you “want to hate all black women” and said the MP “should be shot”. The Tories still took his money.

What if some David Tennant fan who is slightly a bit deranged decided to take what this A hole says as gospel and decides to do harm to Kemi. Its not the first time an MP has been attacked and some, killed.
David Tennent should shut his mouth. I hope all his work dries up because of this misogynistic fool who obviously thinks the sun shines out of his own arse.

David Tennent should shut his mouth.

Really? I thought telling someone to shut up was a hate crime. What happened to freedom of speech?

Someone deranged could take a cue from anything and commit a crime. Tennant said he didn't wish her any harm.

Tennant said he didn't wish her any harm.

I think many people would interpret 'wish she doesn't exist any more' as wishing harm.

I hope everyone who is going to spoil there vote paper dont start moaning about which Government are in power. Like Brexit when people didnt bother then moan about it all being unfair blah blah blah.
As women please use your vote! Women have died just so you have the privilege to do so. No Goverment will look at the spoiled votes that have actually got them in power and even bother about it. Use your vote! Votes For Women!

And many people wouldn't. I didn't. I interpreted it as saying that he wished she was no longer in office. He then said he doesn't wish her any harm and that she should shut up. I interpreted that to mean shut up about trans people.

That is clearly not simply wishing her out of office.

What do you think 'not existing' means?

I just explained to you what I think it means. That he wished she was no longer in office. He said he doesn't wish her any harm. I took that to mean that he doesn't want anything bad to happen to her.

Brilliant post. I’m copying it for all my friends that don’t really get it.

100% right, and very well expressed.

TRA's just don’t want to believe that being gender critical doesn’t automatically mean you "hate" trans people or want to "erase them" or "deny their existence". Or maybe the TRA's just don’t care if it’s true or not. It’s much easier to portray themselves as permanent victims and people who have different opinions as hate-filled bigots.

There are always going to be people defending the indefensible because it's 'their side'. People can see that kind of duplicity for what it is.

I find it interesting that Starmer felt the need to distance himself from that comment - he isn't pretending to not understand the implications, demonstrating more cop on than I would have expected.

The other thread I read on here yesterday had a cracker of a line.

Okey dokey wokey blokey

100% right, and very well expressed.

TRA's just don’t want to believe that being gender critical doesn’t automatically mean you "hate" trans people or want to "erase them" or "deny their existence". Or maybe the TRA's just don’t care if it’s true or not. It’s much easier to portray themselves as permanent victims and people who have different opinions as hate-filled bigots.

His career hasn't stalled. He's only doing the projects he wants and he's just won a Tony award for his role in Merrily We Roll Along on Broadway. He's done some fantastic things on stage. He doesn't owe JKR agreeing with her. He had a career before her and after. And anyway, that's not how working with someone works.

What are the extreme and unpleasant views? Is this just because she is a Tory?