To resent that my future depends on whether a man deems me good enough

[Iwilldrawjapan]

The main source of my mental health problems has been men.
I'm 33 years old and except for my very first boyfriend aged 18, who I left when I was 20, no guy has ever fallen madly in love with me.

I'm fully aware I don't need a man in my life to be happy but I'm only human and it's natural to want a connection with somebody. Not that it's attractive to admit that, mind. You're supposed to not be looking at all and absolutely love being single until someone unexpectedly falls into your lap, otherwise you're 'desperate'.

I'd be ok with it if more people chose to be single, however I hardly know anyone who's single, every bloody person I know is with someone, especially at this age, this is the worst age for me.

Men like me and find me attractive, they just don't want to date me seriously/don't want to marry me/just don't fall in love.

Everyone seems to have some guy become absolutely obsessed with them and just really want to marry them.
Guys mainly use me for an ego boost but I'm just not the one for them.

People sprout mindless fucking clichés at me all the time 'Oh it'll happen when you least expect it!' well here's the thing, I'm not 'expecting' it at all, and guess what, nobody's fallen into my lap.

'Just go online!' like it's that easy, it really isn't.
I'm attractive physically, I have stuff going for me, I travel, I am financially independent, I own property, I have hobbies, good family relationship, I have friends. In other areas of my life all is great.

I'm really not desperate, I'm sure someone will be along to tell me I'm coming across as desperate but I have turned down men too, I would not date just anyone.
My standards are not too high, either. If anything I'm very likely considered out of these men's leagues. They're just very ordinary, average men, but I liked them.

People I've dated have either not wanted a relationship after 2 months, or not wanted a bigger commitment after a few years.

Life isn't fair I guess, people will tell me to 'love myself first ' and all the usual crap. Having 10,000 hobbies is no replacement for a happy relationship. I'm sick of seeing the happy couple photos on Facebook, posing with their husband and holding the baby.

Maybe I will meet someone, but for 13 years I've had bad luck. I've never been anyone's 'one'.

I can't have a child alone, I don't have local family, I can't afford to be a single parent financially or otherwise, period.

Honestly, my mental health has been shot to pieces. Life still has meaning, but it's unfair that I'm deprived of what seems to come so easily to other people.

No one needs to 'settle' for anyone who is dull and boring if they don't want to. I certainly didn't and I know many women who haven't either. You really have a very sad view of life.

My dh is sexy and steady but do I fancy him like I once did? No.
Because I am used to him.
That's it. It's being with someone day in day out, year after year kills the spark.
The butterflies are no longer there.
But that's OK because that is normal.

OMG I am really wondering if this is my ex. He spent about 40% of our time with his finger rummaging around in his nose. On the high street even! He thought I couldn't tell he was doing it when we watched TV and would nibble them out from his fingernails in that horrid wet "tttttt" way, like a snot obsessed squirrel.

A few thoughts as someone who had no serious, long-term relationship through my 20s but quite a few situationships, short romances, FWBs, etc, including with some really lovely men who ended up marrying the next woman they dated:

1. As time went on it really sucked! I did my best to live a full life with work, hobbies, travel and so forth, but a good relationship adds a lot to your quality of life. It is perfectly acceptable to desire this. Wishing you were not single, or feeling frustrated after years of unsuccessful dating, does not make you desperate - it just means you have a regular human need shared by many of your fellow travellers.
2. If you are long-term single and don't wish to be, there can be a tendency to ask yourself - and be asked - what you are doing wrong. We can see this in this thread. But do not underestimate the role of (1) structural factors and (2) dumb random luck. Reasons for (1) include basic maths: men tend to die before women, meaning that elderly men have the pick of the field and can date younger women, and this then cascades down. There are also "issues" with women becoming more educated, economically independent and professional, and there isn't - for lots of reasons – enough eligible mates for that cohort. (I should say, I'd rather be educated and single than live the life my grandmother did, so it's an issue I'll take on the chin.)
3. I'd second therapy as a great opportunity to talk these issues through. Everything you are feeling is absolutely reasonable (including that you can feel quite bleak at times). A therapist might also be able to give you personal insights that friends cannot or will not, eg, I had a session once which included a discussion of whether I knew how to flirt! I always hated stereotypical female flirting, and used to try to win men over with my intellect and witty remarks. Now that's all ok, but on reflection, it meant that I risked engaging with men like their mates did, and not sending clear messages about my interest.
4. I realised that one reason I was struggling so much in my 20s was because my friendship group (who I met at university) was disproportionately comprised of people who went on to marry and have children with the boy or girlfriend they had aged 20. House parties were replaced with dinner parties where I was the only single person there. Their lives were about settling down and starting a family, and mine was not. I'm not sure I even wanted that - but I felt existentially and actually alone. I literally had to make new friends; in fact, I ended up moving country. If that resonates, then I'd strongly suggest surrounding yourself with people who are single or in a different life stage.

I take personal office to you calling my dad and brothers foul.

What have they done?

Justify your comment or withdraw it.

Yes it's really not this black and white though I do remember feeling those were the only options in my 30s. Everyone is an individual. There are so many different characteristics that make up a person.

You are correct they don't but realistically as us women age our choices decrease.

To be fair so do most men's too but a man who keeps fit and ambitious in his 30s/40s/50s and even beyond and is good-looking and charismatic and wealthy has his pick of any single woman he wants.

It's the reality of the sexual marketplace.

I am not going to gloss over the truth.

no guy has ever fallen madly in love with me.

What does 'madly in love' involve?

Here it is again. Men are disgusting, foul, wasters who use women for their youth and reproduction. As a wife your purpose is to nurture them, like their mummy.

Go nurture

I think sometimes when things aren't working out in life then you need to change course. I do think that your focus could change a bit, if only for the reason that it will make you happier not to be thinking about this at the moment. You do sound resentful and it would be hard for this not to come across to the people you meet.

I have had some similar disappointments with a few friendships recently and my approach has been to take my foot off the friendship gas and focus on other things. It's helping as I am no longer obsessing about friends and what they are up to!

I think it was Louise Hay who said you can dream about the perfect apartment and it will be out there but it might not be ready yet and might still need redecorating, etc. So there is no point obsessing, know that you will find your team mate eventually and they will turn up. Timing in life, it seems, is everything.

Good luck op.

Assuming is the word.

You don't speak for all women. Many of us find committed men sexy.

The fact you find them less attractive says more about your commitment issues than anything else.

Dear God, what a vile thing to say.

Even by the terrible standards of MN that's an amazingly sexist generalisation.

re point 2 above.
I think the problem is fishing in a limited pool. Not the OP precisely, but the stage of life.
When you take out the revolting, the sleazy, the insolvent, the ones that complain about the ex all the time, the emotionally unavailable and the ones looking for a nurse or a home, there's not a lot left. Add to this the kid in a sweet shop effect, and it's very difficult.
It's not the OP. It's not settling for the crud.

Not a generalisation. There may be good men out there, cool. Most men are pigs.

why do you think ‘barely legal’ and ‘teen’ is the most searched for porn?

Because they’re lovely? Get the stars out of your eyes.

Most men aren't pigs that's a stupid thing to say. Are you okay with people saying most women are cows.

You live in clouds if you think women are angels.

That is what a generalisation is.

I know many good men. I know many awful ones. It's a pretty even split. Same for women.

It's a people thing, not a sex thing.

And they're the most common because they're searched repeatedly by the horrible group. Not by ALL men.

Probably the best advice here.

Not a generalisation?

I deeply sorry for whatever has happened to you to lead you to say this.

If someone wants to say all women are cows, I’m fine with it actually.

I didn’t say women are angels but should we have a look at statistics on male to female violence? I think women are idealistic, case in point.

When people say there are about 3 billion men to choose from,it almost narrows the field in some ways.How about anyone at work? friends brothers or friends .I think there is nothing wrong with you at all.You sound attractive and intelligent.I think sometimes you can come over like you have it all, and are sorted .And maybe men can feel a little surplus to requirements . I dont mean you have to turn into a Dolly or change your personality .Just say something like "I am hopeless with cars" or whatever .It sounds a little trite but a friend in a similar position felt it helped her to get her BF(Now DH)

OP I know what you mean. The tone/comments se online aren't representative of how you are IRL. When I was long-term single and struggling with it, I often wanted to sound off online about stuff I would never raise with anyone in real life. It didn't mean I was as angry as I sounded. Does no-one else ever make posts on here that are a bit overblown? Are the 'you sound dreadfully angry, OP' head tilters also going onto threads where wives say their husbands are driving them mad and they could murder them for forgetting to take the bins out?

Single women get it from all angles - the 'you just need to love yourself!' crew first off. Great, I loved myself. And now what? Why was the onus on me to be some perfect specimen of self-acceptance, whereas people in relationships could be as self-loathing as they wanted? (I agree it's good to have self-acceptance, and certainly self-loathing isn't something most look for in a partner, but why did I have to love myself when no-one else would? Why was it only me who it seemed had to pass that hurdle?)

You cannot win. If you say you want to meet a man who meets certain criteria, no matter how insignificant that criteria is, someone will accuse you of having too high standards. If you say that actually, you've got some good qualities yourself, and you're happy with a normal guy who isn't a 6"5 millionaire with a six pack, you're told you're doing down the guys you've dated and what makes you think you're so special anyway. Definitely-female posters pop up droning on about betas and chads and egg cartons and act like saying 'I'd like to date a man who washes at least twice a week and doesn't smoke weed all day' is asking for the moon.

Ultimately, I think the problem is a lot of people (women more so than men) think that simply being in a relationship is an accomplishment and a virtue in itself, and that gives them the right to lord it over those who aren't.

MissLuxlisbon No offence to OP who is probably an attractive young woman .Sienna Millar is a beautiful successful A list actress ! not really a comparison to a mere mortal!

OP - honestly I could have written very similar in my early 30s At 50 I’m married with teens . My husband is my best friend .

What jumps out to me is that you are picking men that aren’t enough for you and they know it and wander off perhaps in search of someone who doesn’t make them feel inadequate.. Can I suggest you try dating someone older and more your equal in ability , work etc Give another group a chance . If what you are doing isn’t working change it .

It’s the most searched for because the majority of men are predators. Glad we cleared that up.

I'm sorry you've only had awful experiences that have made you so bitter and biased.

Clearly those of us with good men in our lives are lying. My DH, my father, my BILs, many of my male friends. I've made them all up to prove you wrong.