To think Jewish people are the scapegoats of humanity?

[FactsNotFictionOnly]

I have not posted on the CITME board as although the current conflict is relevant, that is not the main point of this thread.

I do not mean to cause any offence to Jewish people. In fact the opposite.

IF THIS POST IS DELETED BECAUSE IT OFFENDS NON JEWISH PEOPLE, THEN PLEASE RESPOND WITH WHY YOU FIND IT OFFENSIVE BEFORE REPORTING.

I am an atheist and think all religion should be consigned to history books so have no affiliation with any faith but I found the reaction to Oct 7th shocking with almost immediate protests against Israel (the victim) in favour of the ‘freedom fighters’ (the agressors). The denials that atrocities happened, the antisemitism, horrifying comments on SM which are still allowed to stand to this day.

Never before in my life (and I’m getting on a bit) have I seen that reaction of hatred to any country that has been the victim of any kind of terrorist attack or act of war anywhere in the world. Never before have I been aware of the kind of atrocities committed in Israel on such a large scale by a neighbouring country, filmed by the perpetrators, either.

I had heard comments made about ‘the Jews’ at various stages in my life, how they run the world, the banks, the media etc but never really thought much about it or believed it.

I noticed an absolutely blatant lie that popped up on SM yesterday with thousands of comments agreeing with the poster so I responded (never normally do) saying so with evidence and the abuse I got was unbelievable.

That made me do a bit more research on the persecution of Jewish people through history and I was pretty shocked that they were blamed for the death of Jesus, murdering Christian children as sacrifices to be baked into flatbreads, the Black Death, World War 1, 9/11, Covid. All totally false and a lot of the time because it was a way of debtors not paying money they owed to the Jewish people who were the world’s money lenders as it was prohibited in Christianity and Islam and Jewish people were prohibited from other work.

Each time they were blamed for something whole communities were burned to death or had to flee. They were banished from England in the 12th century as well as lots of other European countries. Now I understand why there is so much hatred from the UK and Europeans as these ‘legends’ persist.

Of course in the Middle East from 586 BC they were persecuted where they were killed, forced to convert to Christianity (or pretend to to stay alive) before Islam took over, treated as 2nd class citizens, subject to high taxes and strict rules, regular pogroms and were also forced to leave their homes in their hundreds of thousands.

This was all before a return to Israel was even a thing so there was no ‘Zionism’ then which is currently the excuse for the widespread hatred of Jewish people.

Even before this current conflict there seems to have been a deliberate misunderstanding of the situation in the Middle East with a lot of relevant history missed out out.

Such as the Ottoman Empire ruled the area directly before the Mandate of Palestine and they referred to it as Southern Syria. There were no Palestinians only Arabs. Why didn’t they ‘freedom fight’ the Ottomans for their own State as surely they were occupied under the Ottomans too if they believe the land is all theirs?

I have never seen references to Palestinians being ‘occupied’ by the British either. Weird as they believe the land is theirs and always was theirs - from the River to the Sea.

Why do a lot of people ignore the constant terrorist attacks as the reason why not only Israel, but Egypt too, had to blockade Gaza after a terrorist group with a known mandate to annihilate Israel and kill Jews was elected to govern it by it’s citizens?

Why are people not understanding that this war is not a ‘normal’ war with normal rules of engagement between two uniformed military forces where civilians are afforded protection by their government, military hardware, munitions and bases are placed outside of civilian areas and civilians including children are not involved in military action by firing rockets, RPGs, shootings, stabbings, throwing IEDs, holding hostages in their homes and taking part in barbaric murders, rapes, burning people including children alive and taking hostages?

It is absolutely horrific that civilians have been killed in such a high number or at all but a lot of the deaths can be explained as above and are all due to the war Hamas started.

Why are Hamas not being publicly pressured by Palestinian protestors to give themselves up?

The only (and tiny) Jewish State in the world is now even being persecuted for defending itself against massive neighbouring states who want to wipe it out.

Has there ever been such a forensic examination of any other war while in progress as in this one?

The propaganda and false information circulating before and during this conflict has made it all too clear to see how the Holocaust happened and it’s terrifying to see. I used to watch films on the subject and wonder how could so many people have stood by and let it happen. Now we can all see how.

How can a tiny race of 1% of the population who have achieved more than any other race alive today, be so hated.

Is it jealousy of their success or the hundreds of years of lies that have been brainwashed down generations?

AIBU?

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/why-were-jews-persecuted

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

In the USA, people claim the Irish were slaves to trivialise the enslavement.

In the UK, people claim Catholics in northern Ireland, and Gypsies and Muslims are discriminated against to trivilise the suffering that Jews in the UK endure pretty much without complaint.

What in the goady fuck are you doing trying to set Jews against other discriminated against groups?

In the UK, people claim Catholics in northern Ireland, and Gypsies and Muslims are discriminated against to trivilise the suffering that Jews in the UK endure pretty much without complaint.

@Wellfancythis Those groups are and were discriminated against in the UK too? As well as Jewish people being discriminated against in the UK, not instead of.
It doesn't trivialise.

The world is capable of many wrongs unfortunately.

@Wellfancythis

i don’t agree with you on this. It sounds as though you have a very social media informed idea of things.

the US right wing push that came about coincided with affirmative action policies in US universities. People from Catholic and Jewish communities ( amongst others) responded about how their families had successfully used the American system to move themselves out of poverty. Whilst slavery disproportionately affected black Americans, Catholics were indentured slaves, Jews left Europe after the holocaust and although I don’t think you can define a ranking system here of who had it harder, there is plenty of documented evidence to show some white Americans could move easier than others in US society and that blocks were put on other groups to prohibit movement. Undoubtedly, the history of slavery where black people weren’t considered human was horrific but didn’t the holocaust do the same for Jews? They are not like for like but come with their entire histories and what happened to black Americans happened in US soil as a direct result of legislation - same as Jews in Europe. For Irish people, indentured slavery is not the same as they could move out of it over time and were acknowledged as human (crucial difference) but we are seeing this through modern ideas - it was horrendous for most poor, sick immigrants - the narrative of success is part of the US story but what about the Irish who died in coffin ships, etc? The ghettos each community formed tell you they all experienced difficulties. It’s a real fallacy to fall in to creating hierarchies of difficulty as it dehumanising all communities and makes them victims of their circumstances when the story for many is exactly the opposite - that they created good lives for themselves despite the difficulties.

@Wellfancythis

also please don’t dismiss Catholics in NI - it is a complex issue but you know full well that there is plenty of documented evidence to show what happened there ( gerrymandering, etc)

And Catholic discrimination goes back as far as the Reformation - how that has played out in the UK is also complex. The anger and hate that has been directed at the Catholic community since the abuse stories came out has been horrendous particularly as some of those people would be victims of that abuse - and it has been weaponised online to discredit all Catholic thought whilst everyone simultaneously wants to get in our schools. At work the other day, I had to listen to yet another story about this and bite my tongue. It is clear that some communities aren’t allowed a voice when others are.

Lastly, to dismiss Traveller and Roma prejudice is shocking as the crimes against them aren’t ever really acknowledged and there is still an inherent sense amongst many that they deserve their fate.

i didn’t mean to derail the topic from antisemitism but I don’t think your comment can stand without challenge.

In the UK, people claim Catholics in northern Ireland, and Gypsies and Muslims are discriminated against to trivilise the suffering that Jews in the UK endure pretty much without complaint**

This notion (that I only see on here to be fair) that everyone in life is acting, at times to their own detriment, in order to hurt Jews is quite frankly insane. Noone in NI is claiming that Muslims, Travellers and Catholics are discriminated against, it is a fact. And it's all to trivialize Jewish suffering?