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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Jewish people are the scapegoats of humanity?

1006 replies

FactsNotFictionOnly · 22/06/2024 22:36

I have not posted on the CITME board as although the current conflict is relevant, that is not the main point of this thread.

I do not mean to cause any offence to Jewish people. In fact the opposite.

IF THIS POST IS DELETED BECAUSE IT OFFENDS NON JEWISH PEOPLE, THEN PLEASE RESPOND WITH WHY YOU FIND IT OFFENSIVE BEFORE REPORTING.

I am an atheist and think all religion should be consigned to history books so have no affiliation with any faith but I found the reaction to Oct 7th shocking with almost immediate protests against Israel (the victim) in favour of the ‘freedom fighters’ (the agressors). The denials that atrocities happened, the antisemitism, horrifying comments on SM which are still allowed to stand to this day.

Never before in my life (and I’m getting on a bit) have I seen that reaction of hatred to any country that has been the victim of any kind of terrorist attack or act of war anywhere in the world. Never before have I been aware of the kind of atrocities committed in Israel on such a large scale by a neighbouring country, filmed by the perpetrators, either.

I had heard comments made about ‘the Jews’ at various stages in my life, how they run the world, the banks, the media etc but never really thought much about it or believed it.

I noticed an absolutely blatant lie that popped up on SM yesterday with thousands of comments agreeing with the poster so I responded (never normally do) saying so with evidence and the abuse I got was unbelievable.

That made me do a bit more research on the persecution of Jewish people through history and I was pretty shocked that they were blamed for the death of Jesus, murdering Christian children as sacrifices to be baked into flatbreads, the Black Death, World War 1, 9/11, Covid. All totally false and a lot of the time because it was a way of debtors not paying money they owed to the Jewish people who were the world’s money lenders as it was prohibited in Christianity and Islam and Jewish people were prohibited from other work.

Each time they were blamed for something whole communities were burned to death or had to flee. They were banished from England in the 12th century as well as lots of other European countries. Now I understand why there is so much hatred from the UK and Europeans as these ‘legends’ persist.

Of course in the Middle East from 586 BC they were persecuted where they were killed, forced to convert to Christianity (or pretend to to stay alive) before Islam took over, treated as 2nd class citizens, subject to high taxes and strict rules, regular pogroms and were also forced to leave their homes in their hundreds of thousands.

This was all before a return to Israel was even a thing so there was no ‘Zionism’ then which is currently the excuse for the widespread hatred of Jewish people.

Even before this current conflict there seems to have been a deliberate misunderstanding of the situation in the Middle East with a lot of relevant history missed out out.

Such as the Ottoman Empire ruled the area directly before the Mandate of Palestine and they referred to it as Southern Syria. There were no Palestinians only Arabs. Why didn’t they ‘freedom fight’ the Ottomans for their own State as surely they were occupied under the Ottomans too if they believe the land is all theirs?

I have never seen references to Palestinians being ‘occupied’ by the British either. Weird as they believe the land is theirs and always was theirs - from the River to the Sea.

Why do a lot of people ignore the constant terrorist attacks as the reason why not only Israel, but Egypt too, had to blockade Gaza after a terrorist group with a known mandate to annihilate Israel and kill Jews was elected to govern it by it’s citizens?

Why are people not understanding that this war is not a ‘normal’ war with normal rules of engagement between two uniformed military forces where civilians are afforded protection by their government, military hardware, munitions and bases are placed outside of civilian areas and civilians including children are not involved in military action by firing rockets, RPGs, shootings, stabbings, throwing IEDs, holding hostages in their homes and taking part in barbaric murders, rapes, burning people including children alive and taking hostages?

It is absolutely horrific that civilians have been killed in such a high number or at all but a lot of the deaths can be explained as above and are all due to the war Hamas started.

Why are Hamas not being publicly pressured by Palestinian protestors to give themselves up?

The only (and tiny) Jewish State in the world is now even being persecuted for defending itself against massive neighbouring states who want to wipe it out.

Has there ever been such a forensic examination of any other war while in progress as in this one?

The propaganda and false information circulating before and during this conflict has made it all too clear to see how the Holocaust happened and it’s terrifying to see. I used to watch films on the subject and wonder how could so many people have stood by and let it happen. Now we can all see how.

How can a tiny race of 1% of the population who have achieved more than any other race alive today, be so hated.

Is it jealousy of their success or the hundreds of years of lies that have been brainwashed down generations?

AIBU?

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/why-were-jews-persecuted

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

Why Were the Jews Persecuted?

Tim Black seeks to understand the origins of antisemitism, looking beyond the Holocaust to the ancient Middle East and medieval Europe.

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/why-were-jews-persecuted

OP posts:
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Comedycook · 25/06/2024 10:17

noblegiraffe · 25/06/2024 10:12

Zionist has become the word for ‘most evil people on the planet’. It is utterly demonised, you can see it in the way it is used on protest signs.

The problem is that people using it think that zionists must be the most evil people on the planet, otherwise people wouldn’t use it that way.

That’s why you see the common misconception that Zionist means ‘fully supports Netanyahu in all that he does’. Because that would explain how it is being used.

Except that is not what it means.

And people are blundering into a complex situation where Zionist is also used to mean Jew.

So we’re in a situation where someone can walk down the street with a sign saying ‘fuck Zios’ meaning ‘fuck Jews’ and people will cheer them on thinking they mean ‘fuck people who support Netanyahu’ while zionists who simply support the existence of Israel as a Jewish state rightly think ‘I am not safe here.

Yes indeed.

Anti semites currently are loving the word Zionist. They think it means they can say anything they want and get away with it because they haven't used the word Jew.

One thing I have noticed about anti semetic people though is just how incredibly thick they are. It takes seconds to decode the shit they say and not much longer to destroy their "argument".

79Helene · 25/06/2024 10:19

Bowib · 25/06/2024 09:46

They’ve cancelled due to “safety concerns” but still doubling down in the retweets.
Their bullshit list reads like an onion article.

edit: adding link as my screenshot is blurry https://x.com/crit_awards/status/1805397619835027501?s=46

Edited

Ah, so they're the victims in this.

TwigletsAndRadishes · 25/06/2024 11:34

Lopine · 23/06/2024 23:00

I totally agree with the original post. Oct 7 was beyond awful and I was astonished at the what aboutery displayed by some.

I was in my city centre literally three days after the Hamas atrocities of October 7th, and Lush, the shop that loves to show it cares by virtue signalling and being ostentatiously inclusive at every opportunity, was displaying a 'Boycott Israel' poster in its window, while the bodies of raped, burned and beheaded Jewish women and children were barely cold and in the ground and Israel was still reeling from the trauma.

Later Lush released a statement saying it was an isolated incident carried out by an individual staff member and that did not represent Lush's corporate position. The branch of this so called 'isolated incident' was in Dublin.

My local branch of Lush is not Dublin. It's in England. So not quite so isolated after all.

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 25/06/2024 11:35

TwigletsAndRadishes · 25/06/2024 11:34

I was in my city centre literally three days after the Hamas atrocities of October 7th, and Lush, the shop that loves to show it cares by virtue signalling and being ostentatiously inclusive at every opportunity, was displaying a 'Boycott Israel' poster in its window, while the bodies of raped, burned and beheaded Jewish women and children were barely cold and in the ground and Israel was still reeling from the trauma.

Later Lush released a statement saying it was an isolated incident carried out by an individual staff member and that did not represent Lush's corporate position. The branch of this so called 'isolated incident' was in Dublin.

My local branch of Lush is not Dublin. It's in England. So not quite so isolated after all.

Lush are sinister as fuck and basically embody everything that is sexist, self interested and blindfolded about the left.

confusedthirtysomething2 · 25/06/2024 12:18

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Hiokcreaple · 25/06/2024 18:48

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Hiokcreaple · 25/06/2024 18:50

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Hiokcreaple · 25/06/2024 18:51

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Meraas · 25/06/2024 18:53

Comedycook · 25/06/2024 10:17

Yes indeed.

Anti semites currently are loving the word Zionist. They think it means they can say anything they want and get away with it because they haven't used the word Jew.

One thing I have noticed about anti semetic people though is just how incredibly thick they are. It takes seconds to decode the shit they say and not much longer to destroy their "argument".

Same could be said for anti-Muslims. All thick.

Murica · 25/06/2024 18:58

Meraas · 25/06/2024 18:53

Same could be said for anti-Muslims. All thick.

Sure

Hiokcreaple · 25/06/2024 18:59

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Hiokcreaple · 25/06/2024 19:01

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coupdetonnerre · 25/06/2024 19:04

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Hiokcreaple · 25/06/2024 19:10

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FindThatThing · 25/06/2024 19:13

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You’re not seriously claiming islamaphobia/ anti-muslim hatred doesn’t exist?

Comedycook · 25/06/2024 19:15

Meraas · 25/06/2024 18:53

Same could be said for anti-Muslims. All thick.

What's your point? I'm against islamophobia just as I'm against anti semetism.

Hiokcreaple · 25/06/2024 19:15

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Hiokcreaple · 25/06/2024 19:19

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Hiokcreaple · 25/06/2024 19:39

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Humdingerydoo · 25/06/2024 20:00

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No idea, but it presumably just follows the formula established by eg "homophobia".

Not sure the word needs to be analysed any further. It means what it means, and we all know what it means. Let's not stoop to the level of those trying to change the meaning of "anti-Semitism" to include other Semitic groups too.

Hiokcreaple · 25/06/2024 20:03

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Humdingerydoo · 25/06/2024 20:38

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Thank you for recognising that it's not about oneupmanship and that it's possible to recognise and be horrified by anti-Semitism, racism against black people and the terrible situation for so, so many in Africa all at the same time. We should all be against all hate, not just the one that personally affects us. I've really appreciated the amount of non-Jewish posters on this thread (and many others!) who have spoken out against anti-Semitism. Solidarity is the only way forward!

Bunnyasmyname · 25/06/2024 21:33

The same be said for anti-Muslims. All thick.

Thank you @Meraas for that excellent contribution to this discussion on anti-semitism.
More enlightening than you know.

coupdetonnerre · 25/06/2024 22:10

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DownNative · 25/06/2024 23:20

Humdingerydoo · 25/06/2024 20:00

No idea, but it presumably just follows the formula established by eg "homophobia".

Not sure the word needs to be analysed any further. It means what it means, and we all know what it means. Let's not stoop to the level of those trying to change the meaning of "anti-Semitism" to include other Semitic groups too.

Agree! 💯

No need to try changing it to suit as everyone knows what it means by now. If they don't, a definition was provided a few pages back.

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