To think Jewish people are the scapegoats of humanity?

[FactsNotFictionOnly]

I have not posted on the CITME board as although the current conflict is relevant, that is not the main point of this thread.

I do not mean to cause any offence to Jewish people. In fact the opposite.

IF THIS POST IS DELETED BECAUSE IT OFFENDS NON JEWISH PEOPLE, THEN PLEASE RESPOND WITH WHY YOU FIND IT OFFENSIVE BEFORE REPORTING.

I am an atheist and think all religion should be consigned to history books so have no affiliation with any faith but I found the reaction to Oct 7th shocking with almost immediate protests against Israel (the victim) in favour of the ‘freedom fighters’ (the agressors). The denials that atrocities happened, the antisemitism, horrifying comments on SM which are still allowed to stand to this day.

Never before in my life (and I’m getting on a bit) have I seen that reaction of hatred to any country that has been the victim of any kind of terrorist attack or act of war anywhere in the world. Never before have I been aware of the kind of atrocities committed in Israel on such a large scale by a neighbouring country, filmed by the perpetrators, either.

I had heard comments made about ‘the Jews’ at various stages in my life, how they run the world, the banks, the media etc but never really thought much about it or believed it.

I noticed an absolutely blatant lie that popped up on SM yesterday with thousands of comments agreeing with the poster so I responded (never normally do) saying so with evidence and the abuse I got was unbelievable.

That made me do a bit more research on the persecution of Jewish people through history and I was pretty shocked that they were blamed for the death of Jesus, murdering Christian children as sacrifices to be baked into flatbreads, the Black Death, World War 1, 9/11, Covid. All totally false and a lot of the time because it was a way of debtors not paying money they owed to the Jewish people who were the world’s money lenders as it was prohibited in Christianity and Islam and Jewish people were prohibited from other work.

Each time they were blamed for something whole communities were burned to death or had to flee. They were banished from England in the 12th century as well as lots of other European countries. Now I understand why there is so much hatred from the UK and Europeans as these ‘legends’ persist.

Of course in the Middle East from 586 BC they were persecuted where they were killed, forced to convert to Christianity (or pretend to to stay alive) before Islam took over, treated as 2nd class citizens, subject to high taxes and strict rules, regular pogroms and were also forced to leave their homes in their hundreds of thousands.

This was all before a return to Israel was even a thing so there was no ‘Zionism’ then which is currently the excuse for the widespread hatred of Jewish people.

Even before this current conflict there seems to have been a deliberate misunderstanding of the situation in the Middle East with a lot of relevant history missed out out.

Such as the Ottoman Empire ruled the area directly before the Mandate of Palestine and they referred to it as Southern Syria. There were no Palestinians only Arabs. Why didn’t they ‘freedom fight’ the Ottomans for their own State as surely they were occupied under the Ottomans too if they believe the land is all theirs?

I have never seen references to Palestinians being ‘occupied’ by the British either. Weird as they believe the land is theirs and always was theirs - from the River to the Sea.

Why do a lot of people ignore the constant terrorist attacks as the reason why not only Israel, but Egypt too, had to blockade Gaza after a terrorist group with a known mandate to annihilate Israel and kill Jews was elected to govern it by it’s citizens?

Why are people not understanding that this war is not a ‘normal’ war with normal rules of engagement between two uniformed military forces where civilians are afforded protection by their government, military hardware, munitions and bases are placed outside of civilian areas and civilians including children are not involved in military action by firing rockets, RPGs, shootings, stabbings, throwing IEDs, holding hostages in their homes and taking part in barbaric murders, rapes, burning people including children alive and taking hostages?

It is absolutely horrific that civilians have been killed in such a high number or at all but a lot of the deaths can be explained as above and are all due to the war Hamas started.

Why are Hamas not being publicly pressured by Palestinian protestors to give themselves up?

The only (and tiny) Jewish State in the world is now even being persecuted for defending itself against massive neighbouring states who want to wipe it out.

Has there ever been such a forensic examination of any other war while in progress as in this one?

The propaganda and false information circulating before and during this conflict has made it all too clear to see how the Holocaust happened and it’s terrifying to see. I used to watch films on the subject and wonder how could so many people have stood by and let it happen. Now we can all see how.

How can a tiny race of 1% of the population who have achieved more than any other race alive today, be so hated.

Is it jealousy of their success or the hundreds of years of lies that have been brainwashed down generations?

AIBU?

https://www.historytoday.com/archive/why-were-jews-persecuted

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

You are not being unreasonable

I'm Jewish (non practising). I'm not offended by your post and thank you for noticing this. I'm appalled and disgusted by how Jewish people are currently being treated in the UK. Jewish people in the UK are overwhelmingly hardworking, law abiding and have assimilated well into British culture. The Jewish community has contributed huge amounts...I mean I haven't personally contributed that much, but I hear the others have 😂

This was all before a return to Israel was even a thing so there was no ‘Zionism’ then which is currently the excuse for the widespread hatred of Jewish people

Yes exactly. The anti semites today are absolutely loving the word Zionist now. They basically use it in place of the word Jew and think it gives them cover to spout some dreadful things. It's incredibly transparent.

It’s ironic that you’re terrified about a second holocaust when there’s a genocide of the Palestinians happening right now.

We can’t turn a blind eye to the current events because of the persecution of Jews in the past. Palestinians should not have to pay the price for Nazis and others who persecuted Jews.

👏👏👏👏

Absolutely agree

I agree.

Oh, and the scapegoats of humanity are women. Historically and right now.

Here we go.

How about the genocide of Uyghurs in China. Has there been any anti Chinese sentiment in the UK because of this?

Disclaimer...I obviously don't want to see any anti Chinese sentiment because of it.

Just pointing out how unfair it is that Jewish people are currently being targeted in the UK due to something happening in the ME.

There are so many factual inaccuracies in your post.

I am not anti Jew or generally anti Israel. However as said above, no one can ignore the very real genocide that is happening right now. It’s horrendous.

OP has been very clear she is talking about antisemitism, not about the current war.

There are plenty of other threads where you can discuss the war in Gaza.

Wow, just 4 posts in and we have the 'what about Palestinians' justification/ignoring what's happened to Jews.

So yeah YANBU OP.

Not ignoring at all, just pointing out a different view.

Whataboutery at its finest.

Chinese persecution of the Uyghurs should not let Israel off the hook.

I am just as powerless about what the UK government does about China as I am about Israel.

October 7th was beyond my compression and dreadful

Any word from you about the many, many atrocities committed by Israel against Palestine? Also filmed? Also celebrated widely in Israel? Any thoughts about what the lead up to October 7th might have actually been?

Or does this just work one way?

Except she makes several references to Israel and Palestine. Did you miss them?

You could make the same argument for people who are black, or LGBTI. No doubt other groups.

Indigenous Peoples?

YANBU (and depressing to see the results of your poll so far).

I'm not Jewish so was probably naive as unaffected personally but then the 7 October terrorist attacks happened and I was shocked at the lack of condemnation.

What happened was awful full stop but as someone concerned about VAWG I was particularly shocked at how quiet some prominent women's rights groups and charities here in the UK were about it.

Interesting post OP about the history. I've always found it odd about the blaming for Jesus's death. He was Jewish himself! It was the Romans who killed him but even if it had been his fellow Jews it would be like saying British people killed other British people when capital punishment was legal here.

I love history and find it fascinating that Israel existed thousands of years ago. I think it was a Kingdom originally. Then it was under various occupations for centuries before the modern state became independent again.

I'm from a mixed Church of England and Catholic background. Not brought up religious but became interested in different the Christian denominations when I had my kids. Originally to decide whether to have them baptised and whether to be CofE or Catholic. That led me to reading a bit about Eastern Orthodox Christianity.

I think the origins of antisemitism might be with the Catholic Church (I don't say this to offend Catholics especially as half my family are Catholic!). Seems like very earliest Christianity was a sort of a Jewish sect.

When one of the Roman rulers converted to Christianity it seems like he wanted to distance it from its Jewish roots and one of the ways he did this was to encourage antisemitism.

I don't know enough about Eastern Orthodox Christianity but it sounds like particularly in Ethiopia it's retained more of a connection to Christianity's Jewish roots.

This.

The reactions just underline OP's point.

It's late, so I won't be responding tonight in any detail, but I am shocked and horrified at the anti-semitism I now see, coupled with the utter ignorance of Middle Eastern history our supposedly well-educated young display.

I'm stunned by their a) lack of knowledge, and b) the ease with which they're manipulated.

The Jewish people have undoubtedly been persecuted many times throughout history, with an alarmingly repetitive pattern. I would say they are are not the only group to face this, however, an other example would be Gypsy/Roma.

I think non religious/atheist people struggle to understand the overlap between religion & ethnicity with Judaism, and to distinguish between Jewish people vs Israel as a state. I don't think you can argue "it's not zionism" in terms of public sentiment over the current conflict because its clearly at the crux of it. I have some Jewish people in my extended family, including some living in Israel, although not Jewish myself), but I have struggled for years with my concerns over settlements in the West Bank and Golan Heights. I also have friends in Lebanon who worry about the biblical definition of "Israel" and what that may mean for future border conflicts/stability in the region.

I see the current issue as political, a conflict on the part of the state of Israel, as totally separate to the Jewish people, many of whom are actually opposed to what's happening in Gaza at the moment.

YANBU. I am devastated by the antisemitism I see every day now. I'm constantly fearful of my family's safety.

You are right op. I am in despair at the way the world is, once again, showing so much anti-semetism. I have jewish ancestry and today felt unsafe and unwelcome at an (non political) event (uk) where a large group of protestors were chanting from the river to the sea. It felt like something from 1930s Germany.

I don't know what to do about it all. This thread will soon be full of people derailing it away from your original post. Thanks for writing it though.

Strangely, poking fun at someone for being black is very much frowned upon everywhere, including school playgrounds. As is making fun of someone for being gay. Of course those examples are equally horrific

But the point is, antisemitism seems very casual and 'okay'

Making fun of someone for being a Jew still seems like fair game to the less intelligent amongst us.

I am technically a Jew (mother's line). I'm a Christian. But I would be terrified to walk down Luton town centre as an easily identifiable Jew

YANBU OP.

Jews and women, women and Jews. We are the most abused groups in human history. And on and on it goes.

Oct 7th chilled me to my marrow, and the global response has been even worse.

Remain vigilant re antisemitism, always.

You missed out the pogroms in Russia.