To think that the majority of trans people are neurodivergent

[SlipperSliders]

...and I sort of think it's a form of neurodivergence in itself.

By the way I'm trans affirmative.

I don't think I've met a trans person who I thought was neurotypical.

The only know one trans person, my younger cousin.

They haven't been diagnosed with any kind of neurodiversity but there are some signs to suggest there is a strong possibility (struggling with friendships, having sibling diagnosed with ADHD etc).

My good friend has a ND son of primary school age and he's started to say he wants to be a female, has always felt female.

Have you read the Cass report? In a nutshell: medical professionals at the Tavistock (and other gender clinics), Mermaids, Stonewall, TRAs, the internet (especially websites like Tumblr and Tik Tok), schools and parents are the ones doing the encouraging and persuading.

Which you would know if you'd read the Cass report.

What statistics on trans people being attacked are you referring to? Do you have a link to these statistics?

So the sex development of a fetus under normal circumstances is determined by the presence or absence of a Y chromosome. The fetus provides the necessary hormones, not the mother. If sex development is not concordant with sex chromosomes, or sex chromosomes are unusual - the term used is intersex. Intersex conditions can be diagnosed because the unusual chromosomes, anatomy and/or sex hormone profile can be identified via medical diagnostics - not the case for trans identifying people who aren't also intersex (which might make kinda make them not trans, who knows!)

I suppose in theory it could be possible that trans identifying people are some subtle form of intersex in which as an yet unknown and unidentified sex-linked brain-development signal is absent or different. But I think it's fair to say there is no evidence for this as things currently stand, and the whole concept of the sexed brain is controversial / potentially overstated because of misogyny.

This concept certainly isn't something that has been established as fact. If this was possibly true for some trans identifying individuals, "true trans" as it were, I also don't think it would be true for all.

https://ourduty.group/2024/06/11/german-study-desistance-is-common/

Apologies if this has already been posted.

You are talking about youngsters here and not the middle aged AGP?

That's easy, that person is bi. Sexuality involves sex. Only sex.
Someone who is female, married to a man, and doesn't like dresses is NOT "queer", she is straight.

It's incredibly insulting to your gay elders to use the term for people who are never going to be persecuted for their sexuality and whose minor quirks of dress and name are not going to cause any eyelids to be batted unless they raise a fuss.

Just wait till you're the colleague asking why the menopause policy doesn't include the PC of sex or the word woman. Or why there are no single sex toilets. Not so smiley and kind then. Inclusive you say? Ha ha ha.

Teenage boys are capable of having AGP.

How would that work for twins if only one became trans then?

Thank you.
But perhaps we are guilty though of lumping all trans folks into one block both through medical and social ignorance?

I agree with PPs that there aren’t loads of women in their 40s rushing to transition, but where I live I know two women who have done just that - with double mastectomies and hormone treatments.

I don’t know them beyond acquaintance level so I don’t know their reasoning as to whether they are what you call genuine dysphorics - there maybe needs another category added on for them. They often get overlooked because the loudest trans adults by far are men.

There’s your answer, @Hinkuy .

I am surprised that the origins of the words use in a positive sense began as early as the 1980s. I am probably somewhere in age between the generation that found it offensive and the younger people who are enthusiastic users of the word.

I would not tell the earlier poster s/he has to identify as Queer, but not would I tell the LGBTQ+ people I know that they can’t. And I acknowledge that it was originally used in a cruel way, and when I heard friends using it to describe themselves I was surprised.

Words do change, and I think its reclamation is a positive step forwards, though I totally understand why an earlier poster finds it upsetting.

I think this raises many difficulties especially in places like schools where people are thrown together. How do you reconcile the needs of one group of nd people who can not see it as anything other as a load of bollocks and are unable to join in a polite pretence, even finding doing so to be distressing and another group of people who feel they're being harmed if their identities are not affirmed.

https://culturallyboundgender.wordpress.com/2013/03/09/toward-an-end-to-appropriation-of-indigenous-two-spirit-people-in-trans-politics-the-relationship-between-third-gender-roles-and-patriarchy/?fbclid=IwAR0W77WzvNhxQuxYYh1-kECudjoaxSmP7rnQR-zT21wZCm8DzXDKzQjuucA

Interesting article here about Native American peoples.

I just don't agree that sexuality involves only sex and not gender. I am not sexually attracted to transwomen at all, even though they are biologically male. It's not obvious to me that this is just some massive coincidence, it seems rather to be a facet of sexuality.

Either way though the point is that the people using the term about themselves don't feel that "bi" defines them. I'm not about to use a word about them that they would reject about themselves. Perhaps there is a better word out there somewhere, or one needs to be invented.

I found your post very well written @RedToothBrush and explaining something well that I’ve been struggling to put into words. However I think you’ve misunderstood @SlipperSliders post - I read it as her being ironic and exasperated with the “wrong body” narrative that her young children were vulnerable to. Especially because of their neurodivergence, compounded by the strange experience of lockdown and being sucked into an online world.

Queer? Non binary makes you ‘queer’, or being with someone of the opposite sex does? Can’t help but wonder if you are actually homosexual, or just appropriating language (offensive language at that).

A lot of people getting het up over language around queer, ASD, Asperger's (also controversial because of his discovered Nazi connections) et cetera. It demonstrates the total cul de sac and waste of time of identity politics and its aggressive policing of offence (and the causing of offence).

Men cannot become women. Women cannot become men. Gender identities are a cultural construct. Trans identities are rooted in psychology (they may be sincere but it's a belief unmoored from reality). It's not the same as same sex attraction and does a disservice to same sex equality rights to lump it in and to try to short circuit the debate by piggy backing on the social acceptance of same sex relationships, which is recent and not yet itself fully rooted.

Trans activism is very often men harassing women who do not accept them as women. It is misogynistic and stifling in its demand that everyone accept trans ideology as fact, and its relentless denunciation of non believers.

That's what I think anyway. Don't care if that upsets others. It's freedom of speech.

It's so sad to see young people being told a whole load of crap and having surgeries and dangerous medicines.

You can't feel like a man or a woman - you just are a man or a woman!

All the kids that are quirky, free-thinkers, non-conforming, gay, autistic, don't fit in, the kind of kids that grow up into great British eccentrics and trailblazers are being sold a massive lie and being told that they are 'wrong' and surgically experimented on to make them conform to old-fashioned 1950s sterotypes, at the same time as sterilising them and leaving them with no sexual function. It's disgusting.

Claiming that you are non-binary and are not male or female, means that you consider me, as a woman, as 'conforming to female sterotypes' which is utterly insulting.

Calling yourself queer shows a complete disregard for older gay people - you should be ashamed if you are doing this.

I just wonder if some transphobic people may hate less if they realised that they are being hateful to a group of marginalised ND people.
Here we are with the accusations of 'hate' again! You'd probably consider me to be transphobic. I'm not being hateful, I just don't believe in 'trans' in any way - it's a lie.

Being straight doesn't mean being attracted to all people of the opposite sex. Being gay doesn't mean being attracted to everyone of the same sex. Being bi doesn't mean being attracted to all people on earth. Most people are in fact, only sexually attracted to a very, very small amount of the people but if all the people they are sexually attracted to are the opposite sex they are straight, same sex they are gay, both sexes they are bi.

It doesn't matter a damn whether you agree or not that sexuality only involves the sex of who you are attracted to. It is an objective fact, it's not open to subjective feeling any more so than whether we like to think that some cats are actually dogs. Facts are facts, not wanting to accept them doesn't change objective reality, it just makes our feelings a bit silly

That the majority has reclaimed certain [racist] words will come as a surprise to the man fired for using one of those in the context of asking what do if he heard a staff using it. I think suggesting that a majority find it fine to use certain words due to them being reclaimed is a somewhat sweeping and inaccurate presentation that could lead to a lot of deeply offensive comments being made.

Your son is an articulate young man.

You do realise that all autistic people are not? Many do struggle day to day, will never speak, will never live independently etc

There's a growing consensus that only listening to the autistics who are able to be vocal, does those like the above a disservice.

Not all autistic people are like your son, or indeed my son. Or my daughter, or even me.

We need to respect all autistics, those who prefer 'i am autistic' AND 'i have autism'. And those who prefer ASC, or ASD.

@Tinylittleunicorn in the spirit of clarification, the term used is not intersex, it’s "Differences of Sex Development" (DSD) and if we’re talking about what’s offensive, those in the DSD community find the term intersex offensive as well as being falsely teamed with the GI/trans movement.