To think that the majority of trans people are neurodivergent

[SlipperSliders]

...and I sort of think it's a form of neurodivergence in itself.

By the way I'm trans affirmative.

I don't think I've met a trans person who I thought was neurotypical.

I hope you are not ignorant enough to think being sexually abused does NOT lead to gender dysphoria!

There are plenty of women who have trans identified as men following sexual abuse. Its obvious why when you think about it, removing all traces of their femininity etc, especially if they are ND or gay.

I did some (NHS) autism training the other day and it said that a high proportion of trans people are also autistic. So I would think they're not just basing that on statement on guesswork and there actually is some evidence.

But I do wonder if its the other way round in that autistic people are more likely to be trans.

yes, its obvious when you are allowed to think about it!

I get it. I work in men's prisons and the trans in there have all been rapists. I think they want to get away from what they were and to start again

sex-based stereotypes are very regressive at the moment. It makes sense to me that girls with ASD conflate not feeling like they’re being a girl “correctly” with actually being a boy

😂😂 I assume you mean get away from the mens prison and enjoy the womens?

Many many years ago, before these discussions, I watched a research programme about babies in the womb. It said that man's sperm sent a gender message; early on in pregnancy this triggered physical effects on the mother, but if her body did not respond, then the physical attributes of the child could be at variance to the brain gender. I think it also worked the other way around too. So trans is actually an attribute of pre-natal development? Desire to be the other gender is actually the brain trying to get the body to be correct to itself. Don't hear about this, but it would help with attitudes to children who wish to delay puberty if brain gender could be actually identified, do you think? I do think that perhaps it might not be neuro-divergence, but a societal reaction to the mis-match. We still have a society that expects girls to be quiet, compliant and calm, whereas "boys will be boys" is still seen as acceptable. I still see girls being given ADHD drugs for the same behaviours that we accept as normal in boys.

I do wonder if the increase in trans has partly come about because of the crazy pink blue marketing that the younger generation had to put up with. Walking down toys r us, pink or blue aisles, I hated it as a parent, but what effect has it had on those that sensibly realised they werent just one colour/stereotype?

Don't know about the link with neuro diversity.

What I would say though if that the trans community is probably very welcoming to vulnerable people who feel like outsiders and desperately want acceptance and a way to feel special and valued. I attended an on-line Pride seminar at work recently that was all about accepting identities, by which it meant gender identities. First impressions were of a very warm group - all smiles and kindness, swarms of hearts bubbling about the screen, talk of inclusion. A lonely, troubled person would certainly be drawn to it.

Read up on queer theory. I mean I wouldn't recommend it tbh but it will explain why people are using queer now. Many LGB people don't like the terminology. Many straight people seem to think it makes them seem edgy.

I'm autistic. There is a massive overlap with trans which I suspect is mostly due to misappropriating how it feels and what it means to be autistic. Sex stereotypes are largely ridiculous. There isn't an inner gender essence.

@Pantaloons99 I thought the opposite was more acceptable, as in 'I have autism' not 'I am autistic' ie the condition doesn't define the person.

Definitely have a look at this: https://4w.pub/autism-puberty-gender-dysphoria-view-from-an-autistic-desisted-woman

The girls I think are vulnerable are those without a strong sense of self, who can’t yet see past regressive gender stereotypes and who know they don’t “fit in”. And - lo and behold - thanks to Stonewell and co this unease somehow now equals “trans”

excellent! Another thing that we can blame women for. Well done ladies your body didn’t respond to manly commands in sperm signals. Look at all the fuss you have caused. If only you just obeyed the men 🙄 I haven’t enough eye rolls for this crap.

You're not unreasonable. It is factually true that they are more likely to be ND.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-17794-1

However, it does not follow that it is a form of ND itself.

My cousin is trans. I believe she has now started on hormones as last time I saw her she was wearing a bra.

It is obvious that her mother neglected her because she was a boy. She repeatedly said she didn’t know anything about boys so she left him to my Uncle (also an inadequate parent) while she looked after her sisters.

What concerns me is that it has been reported by my uncle that she is not permitted to have psych input as part of the process. She can only have affirming therapy.

There is nothing different from 50 years ago except the internet. Where once people grew up and thought or felt different things that were just a phase, nowadays with social media and influencers, fuel is added to the fire and girls who prefer to wear jeans and no make up are told they are in the wrong body and should be boys or that they are lesbians and they get on a similar forum to this and it is reinforced to the point they believe it must be true.

Pre-internet, people lived their lives without having so much external pressure.

Nowadays there is pressure to conform to all sorts of types, white teeth, plastic surgery to look a certain way or to belong to certain groups including any one of the many (and confusing) different gender/sexual sections of society. Whereas in the past these things were explored as part of growing up it is now de rigueur and instead of individuals being able to make up their own minds there is virtual bullying into things they are not ready for.

People are getting very upset regarding the different terminology used to describe various sections of society. Language evolves and what a word or phrase meant some years ago now has a totally different meaning. 100 years ago to be gay meant being of a happy disposition, eg "a bachelor gay am I" and if you were feeling queer it just meant you were a bit out of sorts, in fact a dictionary from a hundred or more years ago would probably bear very little relation to how the words are used today.

Instead of getting worked up about semantics it would be better to use the energy to support anyone who needs help to navigate the minefield of modern life and help them to arrive at their destination.

I disagree tbh

Dc are neurodiverse (ADHD) as are many of their friends. None of them has an issue being open about their diagnosis but are very much against the concept of being trans. They see it as a phase and something few do to be seen as cool. Bit like vaping.

Queer is not a slur - google search for examples - I identify as queer I'm also not ND.

I'm ND female. When I was a child I used to think I had a boy's brain simply because I did not relate to girls. In hindsight I didn't particularly relate to boys either, but in my head my black n white thought process was "if I don't think like a girl it means I must think like a boy". Hence, I'm a girl with a boys brain.

I imagine that is the same kind of thinking a lot of trans children go through, except they think it is their body that doesn't match their brain. Whereas it was the other way around for me (wrong brain for the body). But it's scary to think if I was a child in this day and age I would be "transitioned" rather than helped to understand that I'm just autistic and it's natural to feel different and misaligned when you're autistic.

There are so many cultures around the world that have a third / non binary / other forms of gender expression (India, Latin America) for so many 000 years.

It's not a new movement. The question I'd be asking is why is this occasionally so dominant in the media. Who benefits - and who is telling the story?

"There is nothing more powerful in this world than the radical act of living openly, authentically, and safely" Secretary Deb Haaland

Aren't a lot of "3rd gender" countries actually all men pretending to be women as it is illegal to be a homosexual man and has been for centuries?

Not all, no. There are better posts on here about this than from me, but it is true that in some hierarchical, patriarchal, sexist and homophobic societies, men who form some kind of conceptual or physical threat to the men at the top of the hierarchy can be reclassified as 'not men' or even as 'women'. They might be gay and/or competitors for marriage. Occasionally this will apply to women who are not 'owned' by a living man (widows or spinsters) and are therefore recategorised as men. It means that people who otherwise would challenge the oppressive sex norms of a society are neutralised.

I think the interrelationship with those living a religious life is interesting, but that I think is generally different, even if religious institutions are sometimes used as a convenient place for gender nonconformity to be controlled.

They're either autistic or have been sexually abused.

How about support them instead of butchering their bodies making them life long medical patients.

https://www.britannica.com/list/6-cultures-that-recognize-more-than-two-genders

Did a quick search as a reminder... I remembered the Indian reference - Interesting to see the variety of gender identities and expression.