Starmer, JKR, what's most important to most women?

[PupInAPram]

In my more than 60 years, decades of being a single working parent, many experiences of being on the bones of my arse, Labour Party policies have made huge beneficial differences in my day-to-day life. Worrying if there is a man in the next toilet or feeling uncomfortable with a trans woman has literally never been on my radar. If I'm making a decision about voting for the politician who can bring about the greatest good for the greatest number, it's Starmer every time. I wish JKR would just pipe down.

I do denigrate an immensely wealthy woman who can buy her way out of pretty much every difficult situation advocating that others in significantly more difficult circumstances should not vote for the one party that can improve their lives in so many ways based on a single issue, though!

I don’t see anywhere in that Times article where she advocates for people not to vote Labour. Explaining why she is looking at independent candidates is not the same thing.

I don’t want anyone to shut up. I would like to see some perspective. Tory policies have damaged more women and children than anything any other party, except perhaps Reform, might come up with.

Most of this thread is very definition of 'luxury beliefs' as outlined in the article.

Aren't all the bleeding heart lefties supposed to be voting for the greater good and not just what benefits them? Thought the latter was what 'Tories' did 🤔

Yes they matter, absolutely. Which is why I will still be voting for my Labour MP. I still think Starmer has been woeful on this, and applaud JKR turning the heat up. Perhaps she would not have done so if the Tories were not so hell bent on destroying themselves?

You have no way of knowing whether your brother is a predator or a pervert actually.

Yes, that's the point 🤷‍♀️ we have no way of knowing which men are. So we don't want any of them in our spaces, and we don't accept other women saying how lovely they are as a reason to do so.

Do you also post in TRA spaces berating them for making a fuss about toilets, changing rooms and all the other demands they make or is it just women on Mumsnet who do politics wrong?

Are you telling men with identities to shut up and think only about the NHS, poverty and dentists?

No one has missed a point so spectacularly.

'No debate' is over, I'm afraid. Women really won't wheesht.

People can disagree on the issues, and discuss them, but nobody is going to stop us from talking about them anymore.

I would if I ever encountered them. As I said, I just want to see some perspective.

Sorry, but it's exactly the same thing. She has influence and a huge number of followers and is saying she won't be voting Labour this time.

You post on many, many threads that we're making a fuss over nothing, isn't that the same thing?

When someone donates money to Save The Children, for example, they're not saying they don't care about cancer sufferers.

This is no different.

People can care about more than one thing at a time and it's up to them what they campaign for.

You can go make a Reddit account any time and tell them.

Why the fuck would I want to go anywhere near that cesspit?

You are saying you don't think a woman should say who she is or isn't voting for because she's popular/rich?

But it's not an either-or thing. They have damaged women and children in all sorts of ways, agreed. Lots of people know this and have written about it. It's one reason Labour are doing so well now.

JKR has chosen to write about another way in which Labour will damage women and girls. That's perspective.

If people need further evidence on the bad things that the Tories have done, then there are plenty of people who can and will write that side of it! Why does it all have to be on her?!

Why does she have to vote as you will though

We all get a vote each

She isn’t saying she is, she isn't saying she isn’t.

^An independent candidate is standing in my constituency who’s campaigning to clarify the Equality Act.

Perhaps that’s where my X will have to go on July 4. As long as Labour remains dismissive and often offensive towards women fighting to retain the rights their foremothers thought were won for all time, I’ll struggle to support them. The women who wouldn’t wheesht didn’t leave Labour. Labour abandoned them. ^

Where do I even start?

Ok. So women haven’t ever been able to fix the problem of men being violent towards them. Even though it’s not our responsibility to fix their problem. And it has been left to women to try and fix it because men either don’t care, or don’t think there is a problem, or are part of the problem. We haven’t managed it. But now you want us to forget about trying to fix men and their violence for our sake, and start trying to fix men and their violence so we’re less scared when some of those men want to come into our spaces. They’re safe, right? So we’ve got no reason not to want them there next to us? Is that your reasoning? We haven’t managed to fix men for our sakes, but we should be trying again to fix men for men’s sakes?

You’re not getting it. It is not just safe spaces. It is ALL single sex spaces. It’s irrelevant whether those spaces are in women’s hospital wards or in women’s sports or in women’s reading groups. They are women’s spaces. And if you are a woman then you are welcome to share them. But they are not yours to give away. You can’t have them. The answer is No.

Then your argument will continue to be one-sided then. TRA's won't ever stop making this an issue regardless of what's happening in the country so I don't see why women should be told to be quiet.

You think she'd have spent so long being cancelled, got death threats, had her family and home threatened, wrote essays trying to get people to listen instead of vilifying her based on social media misinformation if she could just say something and have the whole world listen and take it on board?!

She's given her opinion, which is very valuable. If people agree, they might consider that as part of their voting choices. They aren't going to instantly take against Labour as a result of it, if they weren't convinced that this was more important than anything else. They'll just take it as part of a package of things to consider. And hopefully Labour will consider it as well.

YABU. Mainly because I don't think you understand the seriousness of the issue and how devastating the impacts are on vulnerable women. It's not just 'toilets'. Are you OK with rapists being housed with female inmates? Because we saw that actually nearly happen in Scotland and JKR and women like her stepped in to stop it. Your logic makes me think of Brexiters thinking Brexit is all about 'immigration' with zero thought given to the myriad of other very serious knock on consequences. Seriously, please inform yourself.

I think I’ve said this three times now. Here’s the fourth - I’m not telling anyone to be quiet.

Saying "I am going to do A" and saying "I advocate that we all do A" are absolutely not 'exactly the same thing'. That is a fundamental comprehension failure.

Yes.
Now they have been given a free pass to do it even more, when and whenever they like. Women and children just have to "pipe down" and put up with it. Because those men just have to say they identify as women and everything is fine..

Okay then. You're not telling women to be quiet but you are clearly disdainful of women who talk about it. That much is clear.