6 year child - stranger talking about her penis

[hermenmumster]

Trigger warning : sensitive topic around Gender Identity

I was at a work event (private garden - bring family along deal) and someone there is a transgender woman- she was tall, bearded ,hirsuite and wearing a dress and heels.
My daughter (6) was roaming around with the other kids and i think must have asked the lady why she was wearing a dress.
She explained that she ´was born a man with a willy , and is now a lady ’

Something jarred in me about a grown person talking about gentalia to a 6 year old child.
What does the mumsnet think?
AIBU to be annoyed?

No, in the exact same scenario – a child asked a trousered male-presenting man (or however you wish to phrase it) why a transgender person was wearing a dress and came out with the same answer – I would also have the same opinion.

As a person who was sexually abused as a child by a family friend - believe me - I do not want to destroy child safeguarding!

Yet by suggesting that men in a dress be treated in some different way to men not in a dress with regard to public conduct - you are doing that. Whether you realise it or not.

We need people who believe in biological reality to bring the cultural space back into their comfort zone, not just accept that society believes women can have penises now.

This bloke aside (because bringing genitalia into a conversation with a child is obviously not right), but a man wearing a dress isn’t necessarily a fetish or sex related. Men are allowed to wear whatever clothes they like, just as women are.

Also @Allshallbewell2021 i still don't understand why you think it's acceptable or even necessary for women/children's rights and needs to be compromised for men who like to wear dresses.

It seems perfectly straightforward to me. We accept men expressing themselves how they like - without confusing the issue with any suggestion that this gives them rights to women's spaces or leeway to talk about their genitalia to children.

OneTC

Of course no one wants a strange man to say penis to their child - but equally this whole issue can't be reduced to this one thing IMO.

I can't say it should be illegal to say 'penis' to a child - you understand that I am trying to demonstrate neutrality. Kids are watching really horrible porn on their phones. Twitter showed images of Michael Mosley's body on the beach - these are terrible boundaries being breached and we are helpless.

This gender ideology believes that men can be women in reality. I don't believe that but through this social movement we are expected to be kind and understand the glaring contradiction of an ordinary hairy assed bloke in a dress in a garden exposing to a child he has a penis but he is also a 'lady' (whatever that means.. see David Wallisms...)

Given this new reality this man is trying to make sense of his presentation to a child. Clueless and offensive.

Children were always taught - men and boys have penises and women have breasts, vaginas and have the potential to have babies.

This incident encapsulates this new reality. I don't like it much either! But I'm trying to get my head round it. That's all. But context and intention also matters.

You're far more generous in your assessment than I am

“This incident encapsulates this new reality. I don't like it much either! But I'm trying to get my head round it. That's all. But context and intention also matters.”

There is no context where it’s ok for a man to mention his penis to a child he has just met.

None.

There are some hard boundaries.
Not everything is relative.

I understand you are trying to negotiate a world where a significant chunk of the population is trying to renegotiate all the boundaries and you are trying to avoid being judgemental about it.

I would recommend you hold on to the wisdom you’ve acquired over your lifetime and stop pandering to children and young adults telling you you’re sooo old fashioned and just don’t understand.

Keep your head when all around you are losing theirs. Exercise discernment and wisdom. Call a spade a fucking shovel.

This was not just a man in a dress, it was a man pretending to be someone he is not- and we all know they are dangerous. This man is showing us who he is. Why not believe him?

The way to get your head round it is to acknowledge that it is harmful nonsense and teach your children that it is harmful nonsense.

Men have penises and women have vaginas. Anyone trying to tell you otherwise is at best misguided and at worst wants to harm you.

There is nothing kind about any of this. Kind has been redefined, just as woman, female and rights have been redefined.

If there was a word that I could shoot off into space never to be seen again, it would be "kind".
My mouth actually fills with vomit when I see it used to women and kids about men.

This incident encapsulates this new reality. I don't like it much either! But I'm trying to get my head round it.

Upthread I linked to articles about the German government in the 1980s placing foster children in the homes of known pedophiles and the impact they had on those children.

No doubt many people then nodded along with these kinds of policies because 'that's the new reality'. They presumably 'tried to get their head around it' too.

Now was that the right thing to do, do you think? Or should they have pushed back hard instead?

I have vowed to NEVER tell my 18-month-old daughter to 'be kind'. The whole concept of kindness has become toxic.

Kind is just another stick to beat women with. It's today's scolds bridle. Today's stocks in the market square. Today's ducking stool.
Ironically, being told to be kind to people who intend to cause me harm has hardened me more than anything else.

Learn to lie for men or else that’s the feeling

Orwellian and dangerous

I asked before but do you know what percentage of people are doing this solely as a fashion choice?

Why can’t people just go down the middle and say ‘their’ rather than completely misgendering?

If a man wants to be referred to as "she", then calling him "they" is equally as misgendering as calling him "he". Either, you're basically admitting you don't really believe he's a woman. If that's the case, it's more honest to say "he".

Why are people so caught up in ‘sex is determined at birth’ to just accept terminology probably needs a bit of work but being transGENDER IS a thing.

Your sex doesn't change over time. You die with the same chromosomes you were born with.

I have a lot of issues with trans women in female spaces, jobs etc. But the deliberate use on this forum to misgender is frankly disgusting. It’s a deliberate point, rather than even attempting to be ambiguous.

Attempting to be ambiguous is not a good thing. It means tiptoeing around the truth.

Let's just stick to the facts then

He's a bloke

Did you ask me? I didn’t get an @.

No I don’t know a % but I have known a few in my time on the gay scene. Men who occasionally wear a skirt or whatever (like Harry styles or young blud) but very much identify as male and aren’t fetishists.

My ds (who is 10) has always loved pink ‘girly’ things- he has started wearing skirts.

He knows he is a boy, and is happy as a boy, and is definitely too young for a fetish (he doesn’t even do the girlfriend or boyfriend thing at school or talk about crushes or anything yet)- he just doesn’t think that there are girl clothes and boy clothes, just clothes that he likes or doesn’t.

The obsession with gender binary in clothing, behaviour, jobs and toys etc is what has led to all this madness. People should be able to look how they like without society telling them that if the thing they like is pink they must be a girl.

This. Kindness is reserved for people you feel deserve your kindness, it's like respect, it's not a wholly inclusive concept. If someone is causing harm to you, in any way, why on earth should you "be kind". Am I kind to people who hurt animals, no! Am I kind to people who hurt kids, no! So why should I be kind to men who hurt women, just because for some unknown reason, their feelings and wants are deemed more important than the feelings, safety, dignity and privacy of women, in our OWN places.

The obsession with gender binary in clothing, behaviour, jobs and toys etc is what has led to all this madness. People should be able to look how they like without society telling them that if the thing they like is pink they must be a girl.

I 100% agree with this.

I do empathize with all the main issues of concern.

I only want to move towards constructive discussion as IME, that is better in the long run, than fixed, extreme positions however plausible the positions are.

There are lots of actions which are extremely questionable and lots of institutional, medical, educational and legal/political capture which makes this a very complex embedded social movement.

All I am saying, notwithstanding all the objections - is that there are very many people across this issue - IMO & IME - who mean no harm. And the anger of either side doesn't help them.

Institutions must create logical rules, systems and data collection that is true - that is starting to happen I think at least in the UK.

Beyond that I can't remain angry despite all these arguments. I will try to do the right thing of course and speak up for women's rights as I always have.

I just don't think the issues are simple. The problems are obvious, the conflict is obvious - but the solutions are not easy although we must push for all rights to be protected and for those rights to be based on reality.

All I am saying, notwithstanding all the objections - is that there are very many people across this issue - IMO & IME - who mean no harm. And the anger of either side doesn't help them.

They may mean no harm, but that doesn't mean they should be given special rights that innocents have to 'suffer' for, as per what you've said earlier.

As I said upthread, what's wrong with saying 'yes absolutely wear the dress if that makes you happy and you should not be stigmatised for that - but as you are still men, your sex based rights do not change'?

As I said upthread, what's wrong with saying 'yes absolutely wear the dress if that makes you happy and you should not be stigmatised for that - but as you are still men, your sex based rights do not change'?

This is the simple common sense of the situation.

All I am saying, notwithstanding all the objections - is that there are very many people across this issue - IMO & IME - who mean no harm. And the anger of either side doesn't help them.

They may mean no harm, but they do harm and they support others to harm. It’s like, tolerating slavery. You are supporting a situation that causes harm.

It harms the women whose privacy and boundaries are eroded, and it harms the children who wrongly believe they need surgery and life altering medication to make their body ‘right’.

Be kind, protect children and women from this insidious ideology.