To have yelled and sworn at DS 12 for 20 minutes non stop in the car

[Lavatera]

Help.
I think I'm going mad and I've damaged my precious DS 12.
I haven't slept all night and I can't stop thinking that the baby I fell so in love with 12 years ago has been yelled and sworn at by me 12 years later.
I feel so, so sad, I don't know what to do with myself.
Yesterday, we had to drive to a town 50 minutes away to see a theatre production.
It was a special treat for my DD's (10) birthday present.
The performance started at 6pm so I knew we'd be driving through rush hour traffic, and the A roads between where we live and this town are well known to be hell at rush hour.
I really wanted to arrive early, in time to find parking, pay on the parking meter, and get to the theatre with enough to sit and have drinks together before going in to the performance. Not to mention I paid a fortune for a family ticket, but it was a show that DD really wanted to see.
So I'd spent 2 days telling DS that he must absolutely make sure that he was ready to walk out of the house at the time I'd set, I told him the time we needed to leave, and I reminded him at regular intervals.
On top of that, I was prompting him an hour before to start getting ready, 45 mins before, 30 mins before, 15 mins before.....he kept telling me I was overestimating the travel time because he'd checked his phone and seen it was only a 35 minute drive. No, I said, that's wrong, it takes 50 minutes, plus it's rush hour so we need to add extra time, plus I need to allow time to park and pay, and I want to arrive ahead of the show starting. I explained to him it was a special evening out and that he must be ready on time.
Nope. He was wasn't ready to leave. I mean by this point I was tailgating him around the house telling him to get dressed, get ready, etc.
So the time came to leave, me and DD had been ready for ages, I'd sent DS upstairs to get dressed, but DS still wasn't dressed, hair not brushed, shoes not on, at the time we had to leave.
Turns out that instead of going upstairs to get dressed and brush his hair like I'd asked him repeatedly to do, he'd decided to ho and sit on the toilet for 30 minutes 'in case he needed to go whilst at the theatre' and he walked out of the bathroom completely not ready.
I started stressing, I knew what the roads would be like, I ended up physically putting his clothes in his hands and telling him to dress, I brushed his hair, he was arguing at me to 'calm down' because I was annoyed by this point. It took him ages then faffing around, before we eventually got in the car 35 minutes later than the time I'd set.
We set off, and I lost it with him. I knew the tailbacks we'd face on the roads and I just developed this irrational anger. I shouted and shouted and shouted. And swore. Oh my God. I was shouting "YOU'RE SO SELFISH! YOU'VE MADE US LATE! YOU'VE RUINED THE EVENING! WE'RE GOUNG TO MISS THE SHOW! THEY WON'T LET US IN IF WE ARRIVE LATE! WE'RE FUCKING LAAAAAATE! LOOK AT THE FUCKING TRAFFIC!!!!! WHY HAVE YOU DONE THIS????" Honestly, I was like a woman possessed. I could not stop shouting. And I didn't stop raging for 20 full minutes. I was shouting so loud he had his fingers in his ears. DD was upset by my shouting.
I can't believe I shouted and swore like that.
For background, he makes us late for almost every single thing we ever have to be on time for. He's made us late for so many important events by just not listening to all my instructions and prompts and motivation and chivvying him along.....nothing, literally nothing works to get him out the house on time. Not even the threat of school detentions when he can't get ready even with my help in time in the mornings.
Christmas. I cannot believe I shouted for 20 mins and swore at my darling boy in a moving vehicle that he couldn't get out of so he couldn't walk away from me.
And upset DD in the process.
So the traffic was gridlock.
We arrived late, missed the start of the show, they let us in but wouldn't let us sit in our seats, they stuck us at the back in staff seats where we couldn't see very well (I'd bought prime position front central seats, I could see them sitting empty), and we all had a miserable evening.

We all know shouting and swearing isn't the ideal situation. You can apologise for the swearing at him and state that it wasn't the best reaction but you don't need to apologise for being angry with the way he acted.

What is ds's consequence of making you all late and missing part of the show/being unable to use your seats? And for speaking to you so dismissively? And ignoring your instructions?

How will he be expected to make this up to his sister?

Honestly this might have been the best thing to happen to him. Maybe next time he's telling you that you've got the travel time wrong, like a miniature mansplainer, he'll remember your meltdown because it will be a vivid memory and he'll realise that maybe you do actually know what you're talking about!

Stop taking him to things, he'll soon learn, this really angered me tbh. He's just ruined the birthday! He needs punishments etc

Oh don't be so stupid. Sustained shouting repeatedly over minor things, yes, emotional abuse.
12 year old being a little dick and ruining a family treat for everyone else getting bawled out is not emotional abuse, for crying out loud!

Well it depends on what he was wearing or if he was unwashed, etc.

it was his sister's birthday treat to the theatre - it's not unreasonable to expect a 12y to be dressed in appropriate attire, having had a wash and brushed his hair.

He will generally be expected to be clean and tidy going to,school, so why not when going out with his family?

It sounds like a power thing. He knows he can press the right buttons and he’s doing it. ( wasn’t there a Tales of the Unexpected where a husband deliberately did this to his wife knowing it would make her stressed and she ended up murdering him?!
You shouted and didn’t murder him 😂. His behaviour was awful and deliberate. You shouldn’t apologise and on the contrary tell him that his selfishness spoiled his sister’s birthday

If an adult female friend of mine told me her partner had yelled at her for being so late they ended up missing part of the show and not getting to the right seats, ruining someone else's birthday treat, and this person has a history of ALWAYS being late and ruining things, and they said "Yeah, I told him he'd over estimated the travel time so I didn't bother hurrying to get ready, how was I to know there would be traffic and it would take us a while to find a parking space..." then yes I absolutely would think it was justified!

I didn't say that she was though? In fact I said that she seems to appreciate that she is in the wrong- it's other people who are telling her it's fine, don't worry about it, he deserved it etc..

I do agree with taking DD out again on her own. As another poster said, if she is on time like you she deserves to have the nice things.
Your DS can stay at home or have a sitter. I also think letting him be late for his own precious hobbies would teach him how annoying it can be to waste time when you like doing something. He is in charge at the moment and as others have said, this is often what controlling men do. You need to stop pandering to it and letting it affect you by leaving them out of nice things that need planning. I like the idea a pp had with her and her dd swanning in on time while DS and DH run in flustered sweating late - sounds ideal.

Honestly? Apologise to your daughter for her utterly selfish brother and don't let him ruin her birthday treat again. You should have left him at home.

I would have left him at home. Everyone loses their temper at some point, don't feel bad. It wasn't fair on your DD to be exposed to all the shouting but obviously you lost control of the situation.

In future, I would just start leaving him. If he's not ready by X time then he can make his own way or stay at home. It's the only way he will learn. However, your DD deserves a treat to compensate.

I'd have screamed at him too. What a frustrating and deeply inconsiderate set of behaviours. Next time, don't include him in trips like this. Get him a babysitter and he can fanny around at home to his hearts content.

That sounds grim, I could feel my stress levels rising just reading it and in the end none of you enjoyed the evening anyway. 🙁

I hope no one will excuse your behaviour (haven't rtft) because it's good that you aren't trying to do that and have accepted it was very wrong.

You need to look at yourself and why you reacted like that, knowing that he's always late. My DP is the same, he just can't leave the house on time and always keeps us hanging around - it's not deliberatly done to annoy it's just his personality. Early on I would get furious but now I've learnt some coping strategies.

Meh, nobody died.

If anything, your DS needed to be told and you gave him a valuable lesson. Fuck around, find out. He knew he was going to make you all late and his behaviour was super disrespectful to your poor DD, whose special treat it was.

My dad is the most mild-mannered, softly-spoken person, but he would have gone absolutely ballistic if 12yo me had so much as dared suggest he had overestimated driving times. You drive, you set the time.

This was a straw that broke the camel's back moment, so don't feel too bad about it. I hope you can make it up to your DD, and perhaps going forward look into leaving DS at home more.

Imagine the replies if the OP were male 🫤
There wouldn't be a single 'we are all human', 'everyone makes mistakes' post.

OP, I'd have left him if I could.

Also, I think reacting like you did really won't have helped. I don't think he will be damaged necessarily but he isn't going to respect you. He sounds like he doesn't already. It's not good for the teenage years. Are you generally a naggy mum? Does he listen to other people.

Is your daughter also 'precious' btw? Or is she often made to deal with selfish behaviour from him and just have to suck up the consequences?

I would re-do DD’s birthday treat without him and take the money needed out of his birthday budget. If it only leaves him with a pair of socks for his birthday so be it. He’s actions were clearly deliberate.

Regardless of whether he is ND or not, he's behaved badly. I have lots of ND family members so I get time blindness, and I agree I don't think it's that - when I "backwards plan" for them, they mostly go along with it. He was sabotaging the outing for a reason that might be more (anxiety) or less (spoiling sisters treat) understandable.

Ideally you would not have shouted and sworn for 20 minutes. But I actually think he needed to see that his actions upset you and his sister and spoiled the evening. And that this kind of behaviour has to stop.

The thing is that now, in a few days, when you're calm and you have time, you need to talk about it. You can apologize for showing your anger as you did, but I don't think you need to be sorry for being angry. He needs to think about making a meaningful apology to his sister. I would also consider whether his presence can be optional on outings like this in the future - I know we all want the "lovely whole family trip" but sometimes the reality of a day where everyone who goes enjoys it, and some other people stay home is actually better.

Don’t blame you frankly.

I would apologise for the swearing/prolonged shouting, but make sure he knows you're not apologising for getting angry/frustrated at him because that it a perfectly reasonable response. I'd reiterate calmly that he ruined his sister's birthday and that this is totally unacceptable and you aren't going to allow it to happen again.

I would give him some new rules; you will tell him ONCE that it's time to get ready, and what time he needs to be ready for. You will not be giving him any more reminders or telling him to hurry up. If he is not ready by that time then you will leave him at home. If he is late for school you will allow him to be late and he can deal with the detentions. He needs to start feeling the actual consequences of his selfishness.

I think the only thing you did that was unreasonable was not to have just left at the time you had planned. After warning him so many times, I would have waited maybe five minutes and then gone without him. You won't have damaged a 12 year old by shouting at him and I'm sure most people would have done exactly the same in this position. I hope he realises that he ruined a special evening, but at that age, children can be so selfish and self absorbed. My daughter was always late and I used to really dread the battle to get her up in time to catch her train to school every morning.

? Why?
Anyway, I have yet to see a man plan a special evening with the kids and drive them across town to be on time for it. Would be interesting to watch though.

Is your son on the spectrum? Adhd, autism etc

I hope
You got to see the show

In future if you have to be
Somewhere in time lie about the start time. That's the only way I can get
My adhd asd daughter to leave in time SHe has no concept of traffic or the fact I dont have a helicopter.

Honestly I think he deserved the telling off, if it was that bad for him hopefully he'll learn not to think he knows better than you and ruin his sister's birthday