To have yelled and sworn at DS 12 for 20 minutes non stop in the car

[Lavatera]

Help.
I think I'm going mad and I've damaged my precious DS 12.
I haven't slept all night and I can't stop thinking that the baby I fell so in love with 12 years ago has been yelled and sworn at by me 12 years later.
I feel so, so sad, I don't know what to do with myself.
Yesterday, we had to drive to a town 50 minutes away to see a theatre production.
It was a special treat for my DD's (10) birthday present.
The performance started at 6pm so I knew we'd be driving through rush hour traffic, and the A roads between where we live and this town are well known to be hell at rush hour.
I really wanted to arrive early, in time to find parking, pay on the parking meter, and get to the theatre with enough to sit and have drinks together before going in to the performance. Not to mention I paid a fortune for a family ticket, but it was a show that DD really wanted to see.
So I'd spent 2 days telling DS that he must absolutely make sure that he was ready to walk out of the house at the time I'd set, I told him the time we needed to leave, and I reminded him at regular intervals.
On top of that, I was prompting him an hour before to start getting ready, 45 mins before, 30 mins before, 15 mins before.....he kept telling me I was overestimating the travel time because he'd checked his phone and seen it was only a 35 minute drive. No, I said, that's wrong, it takes 50 minutes, plus it's rush hour so we need to add extra time, plus I need to allow time to park and pay, and I want to arrive ahead of the show starting. I explained to him it was a special evening out and that he must be ready on time.
Nope. He was wasn't ready to leave. I mean by this point I was tailgating him around the house telling him to get dressed, get ready, etc.
So the time came to leave, me and DD had been ready for ages, I'd sent DS upstairs to get dressed, but DS still wasn't dressed, hair not brushed, shoes not on, at the time we had to leave.
Turns out that instead of going upstairs to get dressed and brush his hair like I'd asked him repeatedly to do, he'd decided to ho and sit on the toilet for 30 minutes 'in case he needed to go whilst at the theatre' and he walked out of the bathroom completely not ready.
I started stressing, I knew what the roads would be like, I ended up physically putting his clothes in his hands and telling him to dress, I brushed his hair, he was arguing at me to 'calm down' because I was annoyed by this point. It took him ages then faffing around, before we eventually got in the car 35 minutes later than the time I'd set.
We set off, and I lost it with him. I knew the tailbacks we'd face on the roads and I just developed this irrational anger. I shouted and shouted and shouted. And swore. Oh my God. I was shouting "YOU'RE SO SELFISH! YOU'VE MADE US LATE! YOU'VE RUINED THE EVENING! WE'RE GOUNG TO MISS THE SHOW! THEY WON'T LET US IN IF WE ARRIVE LATE! WE'RE FUCKING LAAAAAATE! LOOK AT THE FUCKING TRAFFIC!!!!! WHY HAVE YOU DONE THIS????" Honestly, I was like a woman possessed. I could not stop shouting. And I didn't stop raging for 20 full minutes. I was shouting so loud he had his fingers in his ears. DD was upset by my shouting.
I can't believe I shouted and swore like that.
For background, he makes us late for almost every single thing we ever have to be on time for. He's made us late for so many important events by just not listening to all my instructions and prompts and motivation and chivvying him along.....nothing, literally nothing works to get him out the house on time. Not even the threat of school detentions when he can't get ready even with my help in time in the mornings.
Christmas. I cannot believe I shouted for 20 mins and swore at my darling boy in a moving vehicle that he couldn't get out of so he couldn't walk away from me.
And upset DD in the process.
So the traffic was gridlock.
We arrived late, missed the start of the show, they let us in but wouldn't let us sit in our seats, they stuck us at the back in staff seats where we couldn't see very well (I'd bought prime position front central seats, I could see them sitting empty), and we all had a miserable evening.

I don’t blame you, he is too old for this nonsense, what consequences do you normally give him for not listening? What punishment is he dealing with for this behaviour ? You must nip this in the bud and the only way to do that is have firm consequences, no second chances or false threats.

I can't believe that the majority of pp have said YANBU. You really cannot react like that again. He needs help to be ready on time - not just telling. Even if it's brush your teeth at 5 past, or I'm turning the WiFi off (or whatever), repeat the request at 5 past but "now", and carry out threat if he doesn't. He might need you to break the task of being ready on time into stages in this way. Sounds ridiculous and repetitive, but that's what he might need. Even a visual timer might help. Think of it as something he struggles with, rather than him deliberately making you late. I feel for you (I have a 13yo like this). I would apologise for shouting and swearing, and have a conversation about working together to improve his ability to be on time, for his benefit as well as everyone elses.

Whether or not it’s abuse is kind of subjective, but I’ll tell you one thing, it’s likely to have caused damage in your relationship with your son, especially the fact that you kept on shaming him even after he had apologised, and as you say he was cornered and it would been really shocking for him.

What is he going to do with all those feelings, is he going to feel like apologising next time? Possibly not. and I can easily foresee a future where you complain about that on here and the usual harpies pile in with how he’s an inherent evil bastard just because he’s a boy.

You are a good person and you feel ashamed, that shame will drive you to find another way to handle this, it’s a healthy feeling. You need to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Explain to him how you are going to keep your shit together as the adult. You lost control, that will be very frightening for both of the kids and obviously has been for you as well.

So your relationship with anger needs looking at, the fact that you don’t feel very in touch with your anger suggests that perhaps you are stuffing it down and now it’s all come exploding out, you need to address that.

The other replies crowing about how it’s his fault, he had it coming… - it always puts me in mind of that scene in the life of Brian where all of the women get really excited about stoning someone to death. Hilarious, predictable, grim as fuck..

yes, you are human, we humans make mistakes, and when we do if we are healthy we feel ashamed, that’s where you are now. We’ve all done things wrong and felt like that and it’s a horrible feeling, you can repair it.

don’t get on board with this shite about trying to make it all his fault. You know what he’s like, maybe you need to start pretending that you have to get places earlier than when you do. some people have major issues with estimating time and getting ready on time, you might find that there are broader issues with his executive functioning (have a google if you haven’t considered this) , which need to be investigated as well.

You sound like a lovely mother, much love and compassion is needed in this situation, obviously you need to start with yourself.

Your behaviour was absolutely not terrible. Uou didn't ladh out. It was nothing yo be proud of, but neither should you fewl ashamed nor like a bad parent. You're not. It was perfectly understandable reaction and absolutely deserved.
You too have rights. One of these is for reasonable requests to be obeyed by children in your care.
You are the adult, you have the right to be obeyed. You eish you'd handled the situation differently, but you're human too. You were driven to distraction by a terribly badly behaved disobedient boy.

Yes, I know. Obdience is not expected nowadays, as it was when I was a kid.
Frankly I'm tired of the endless litany of excuses for bad behaviour trotted our by posters.

It’s not ideal but you are only human. I still feel bad for filming my ds3, now 17, having a meltdown, aged about 3, because nobody seemed to believe how bad it was. He doesn’t care!

I would sit him down and talk to him again. Work out with him what consequences of his actions are going to be. I would definitely confiscate his phone. It’s no use to him if it’s giving false information. Could he have ADHD/ADD? Have you got someone who could stay with him when you take his sister out? He (and you) really need to put things in place to manage this now or you are going to have years of frustration.

I think the only thing you're being unreasonable about is calling him a darling boy and worrying you're going to have ruined him.

He was being a selfish shit and needed to be told that. I'd have absolutely yelled too but would have also gone a step further and left him at home with no WiFi

I have one that age. They're twats

Time blindness continued:-

Something neither I nor my therapists picked up on is that my mental picture of time is episodic, for want of a better word. There is Situation A - at home - and Situation B - at the theatre. The transition time is null. It should be non-existent to my mind. I absolutely struggle to perceive it as two more Situations: getting ready is one; getting there is another. So the theatre is really Situation D.

You know when you're binge-watching a series on Netflix? You press Skip Recap and Skip Intro. Then, at the end, you press Next Episode. This is exactly how my brain experiences life events. What I needed to do was build these 'skipped' elements into my understanding of the whole - they're not dead time, they're integral parts of each experience. They don't need to be reduced to an absolute minimum but, rather, allowed for and counted as worthwhile.

It sounds as if your rant was a bit overdue (without the swearing obviously).

Next time you are about to go to something that is important to him, make him late. Then have a sensible discussion how it made him feel etc.

Obdience is not expected nowadays, as it was when I was a kid.

Maybe we don’t want our kids to be drones.

(I do want mine to be able to function in a world not built for her brain and to be able to spell.)

Crap like this is part of the problem. Actions have consequences and to push someone to their breaking point intentionally or not is going to have a real life consequence that you cannot apologize away. Some times apologies just don’t mean anything.

Stop raising kids to believe that their actions don’t have impacts on other people. The goal here isn’t will he feel like apologizing next time. The goal is he learns from this so there isn’t a next time.

Time blindness...

There was no time blindness here. It's so frustrating how many people keep saying "could he have ADHD?" just because the words "always late" were used. People with ADHD try to get ready on time. They want to get ready on time. They just have trouble putting that into action. The OP's son didn't try to get ready on time because he had decided the OP was wrong about how long it would take to get to the venue. He did not want to get ready on time because he had decided he would get ready for a time he decided on. He was not blind to the time. He knew what time it was. He just had no interest in getting ready until he wanted to.

This is slightly out there but reading your op I was struck by him googling the predicted journey time and then sitting on the toilet until he had to leave in case he needed the toilet at the theatre. This is something I'd associate with anxiety

😂 Really? It’s something I’d associate with him finding one of the few places in the house he can relax and do whatever 12year olds do on their phones without his mum walking in to nag him about getting ready. It’s a very common tactic employed by men of a certain type all over the globe. ‘You need me to do something I don’t really fancy doing? Ok, I just need to nip to the loo, I’ll be back when I think you’ve either forgotten about it or have done it yourself’. And the Googling of the journey time has far less to do with anxiety and far more to do with an attempt to stop his mum nagging him because he’s assessed the situation and decided that there’s plenty of time.

OP, none of the gentle, polite, patient ways of asking have worked. Losing your shit at him is the only tactic you haven’t tried yet. Maybe a short, sharp shock is what was needed. Do not undo what you’ve done by apologising to him. Not for shouting and not for swearing. He is the one who needs to apologise to you and to his sister. And if he does apologise then tell him you accept his apology but that you are never going to let him stress you out like that again. You aren’t interested in his opinions on traffic flow during rush hour and you are not above taking his phone off him. He’s 12. You’re the adult. He has to do what you say, when you say it. And if you say be ready to go out the door at 5, then he needs to be putting his shoes and coat on at 4:59. The alternative is that he comes as he is, even if that’s in his pants and he gets dressed in the car.

I think there’s a massive divide in parenting techniques here. I wonder if it’s generational? I’m half laughing and half wincing at the thought of informing my parents at 12 years old that they needed to chill out because I knew better than they did.

I haven't read the full thread and apologies if this has been said 100 times already but what you have described is completely indicative of ADHD. (I note you said this wasn't a one-off and that he's like this all the time). This sort of thing used to drive me mad pre dd's diagnosis and it breaks my heart I used to lose patience with her when it was just all part of her ADHD. It may be worth you looking at the full symptoms to see if anything fits. If he has inattentive instead of hyperactive adhd for example you may have missed it (I did). If he does have ADHD shouting at him, imposing sanctions, punishing him etc will have no effect whatsoever and just make things worse.

If that was aimed at me, I'm disappointed that the effort I put into two detailed replies was so wasted.

@Whothefuckdoesthat

I think there’s a massive divide in parenting techniques here. I wonder if it’s generational? I’m half laughing and half wincing at the thought of informing my parents at 12 years old that they needed to chill out because I knew better than they did.

Oof… can’t even imagine the response I’d get from pulling something like this at that age.

Oh no I can literally feel the worry through the screen. Honestly he will be absolutely fine - it’s obviously not great what’s happened but just apologise once for loosing your cool and leave it as that. I’m sure he’s feeling guilty too for making you all late!

I do remember my mum loosing her cool on one occasion and it is something we laugh about now if that makes you feel any better!!! We’d clearly pushed her over the edge and we knew that at the time and didn’t hold anything against her at all and certainly weren’t scarred as she was and is a great mum and it sounds like you are the exact same x

@Lavatera
We're all human. I'd be losing it too.
How about you introduce some consequences.
For example: You plan an outing with a very exact planning but you organise someone to look after him and tell him you don't want a repeat of the last disaster and if he cannot do as told and contribute to the nice event by being ready on time, he's simply going to be left at home.
He's 12, at that age he is well aware of actions and consequences, in fact he tried to be a smartass by telling you it's all good, plenty of time.
How is he going to learn if not by realising that if he refuses to be a part of the preparation for an event, he won't be a part of it.

You weren't stressing for no reason, OP. He did make you late. You planned to arrive well in advance, and you ended up arriving after the start of the show so you didn't get to sit in the seats you'd paid for.

I agree with the PP who said you should have left him behind.

The only thing that has ever worked with my stepchildren when they try and delay us all going somewhere is to say we will just go without them

Could you have someone (a neighbour or similar) on standby so you can threaten to (or actually ) go without him?

There’s a happy medium between being a drone and being a selfish little fucker who doesn’t care about anyone else’s time and thinks that at twelve years old, his opinion on traffic needs to be given more weight than his mother’s.

It’s all very well teaching your children that they are fascinating individuals with insightful opinions, but you also need to teach them that, as their parents, you are the only people who think that the sun shines out of their bums, irrespective of how well they spell.

The bigger issue I think is he’s 12 and already running the show. Good luck with the next 5 years!

Does he care?
I'd actually not bother including him if he doesn't care. Bring late all the time, chasing him around etc, would drive me insane.
Dont beat yourself up about the yelling. It's an unpleasant part of life. No one died.

I've never shouted at him before

LOL. Tell me you've raised an entitled spoilt kid who rules the roost without telling me.

No wonder you 1. have such an unpleasant child who talks back to you and 2. you lost it totally and 3. you are near hysterical with anxiety about the damage and emotional abuse you may have caused by (albeit a bit excessive) but totally warranted display of anger.

He is 12 years old. TWELVE! If you'd said he'd been an angel for 12 years who never needed a bit of shouting to learn about discipline and anger I wouldn't have believed you - but given the way he behaves towards you, it's clear he really has suffered from a lack of discipline.

Really surprised at the responses here. I am a gentle parent myself in that I don’t raise my voice or shout but in this scenario I would’ve lost it too. I think he totally deserved it OP. I wouldn’t apologise to him, I would however apologise to your dd. It must have scared her.
I would speak to him and explain how bad his behaviour affected everyone and that there need to be consequences for him - he not only ruined your dd’s special evening, he also badly upset and stressed you due to his own selfishness. I would probably book another set of theatre tickets for you and your dd and make him cover the cost from his pocket money/ savings etc.
I also wouldn’t hesitate leaving a 12 year old home alone for 4 hrs in the evening but I appreciate we are all different.