To have yelled and sworn at DS 12 for 20 minutes non stop in the car

[Lavatera]

Help.
I think I'm going mad and I've damaged my precious DS 12.
I haven't slept all night and I can't stop thinking that the baby I fell so in love with 12 years ago has been yelled and sworn at by me 12 years later.
I feel so, so sad, I don't know what to do with myself.
Yesterday, we had to drive to a town 50 minutes away to see a theatre production.
It was a special treat for my DD's (10) birthday present.
The performance started at 6pm so I knew we'd be driving through rush hour traffic, and the A roads between where we live and this town are well known to be hell at rush hour.
I really wanted to arrive early, in time to find parking, pay on the parking meter, and get to the theatre with enough to sit and have drinks together before going in to the performance. Not to mention I paid a fortune for a family ticket, but it was a show that DD really wanted to see.
So I'd spent 2 days telling DS that he must absolutely make sure that he was ready to walk out of the house at the time I'd set, I told him the time we needed to leave, and I reminded him at regular intervals.
On top of that, I was prompting him an hour before to start getting ready, 45 mins before, 30 mins before, 15 mins before.....he kept telling me I was overestimating the travel time because he'd checked his phone and seen it was only a 35 minute drive. No, I said, that's wrong, it takes 50 minutes, plus it's rush hour so we need to add extra time, plus I need to allow time to park and pay, and I want to arrive ahead of the show starting. I explained to him it was a special evening out and that he must be ready on time.
Nope. He was wasn't ready to leave. I mean by this point I was tailgating him around the house telling him to get dressed, get ready, etc.
So the time came to leave, me and DD had been ready for ages, I'd sent DS upstairs to get dressed, but DS still wasn't dressed, hair not brushed, shoes not on, at the time we had to leave.
Turns out that instead of going upstairs to get dressed and brush his hair like I'd asked him repeatedly to do, he'd decided to ho and sit on the toilet for 30 minutes 'in case he needed to go whilst at the theatre' and he walked out of the bathroom completely not ready.
I started stressing, I knew what the roads would be like, I ended up physically putting his clothes in his hands and telling him to dress, I brushed his hair, he was arguing at me to 'calm down' because I was annoyed by this point. It took him ages then faffing around, before we eventually got in the car 35 minutes later than the time I'd set.
We set off, and I lost it with him. I knew the tailbacks we'd face on the roads and I just developed this irrational anger. I shouted and shouted and shouted. And swore. Oh my God. I was shouting "YOU'RE SO SELFISH! YOU'VE MADE US LATE! YOU'VE RUINED THE EVENING! WE'RE GOUNG TO MISS THE SHOW! THEY WON'T LET US IN IF WE ARRIVE LATE! WE'RE FUCKING LAAAAAATE! LOOK AT THE FUCKING TRAFFIC!!!!! WHY HAVE YOU DONE THIS????" Honestly, I was like a woman possessed. I could not stop shouting. And I didn't stop raging for 20 full minutes. I was shouting so loud he had his fingers in his ears. DD was upset by my shouting.
I can't believe I shouted and swore like that.
For background, he makes us late for almost every single thing we ever have to be on time for. He's made us late for so many important events by just not listening to all my instructions and prompts and motivation and chivvying him along.....nothing, literally nothing works to get him out the house on time. Not even the threat of school detentions when he can't get ready even with my help in time in the mornings.
Christmas. I cannot believe I shouted for 20 mins and swore at my darling boy in a moving vehicle that he couldn't get out of so he couldn't walk away from me.
And upset DD in the process.
So the traffic was gridlock.
We arrived late, missed the start of the show, they let us in but wouldn't let us sit in our seats, they stuck us at the back in staff seats where we couldn't see very well (I'd bought prime position front central seats, I could see them sitting empty), and we all had a miserable evening.

Wow I’m shocked by the vote. Haven’t read answers! Shouting and swearing at anyone for 20 mins is crazy behaviour and waaaay OTT.

you dont have teens then? what would have been appropriate. There there darling it doesnt matter if we miss the start, sit in shit seats and your sisters treat is ruined. people lose their shit sometimes. because we are human

mathanxiety · Today 18:23

Next time you're going somewhere, drag him to the car, dressed or not. He can enjoy the event in his pajamas if necessary, or shoeless/ coatless, hair wet or unbrushed, etc.

Leave when you say you're leaving - and do not discuss traffic with a 12 year old.

You give your stamp of approval to his right to question your decisions and judgement when you get sucked into discussions with this child.

Stop him in his tracks - "Don't you dare argue with me" is the only response to his comment that he had checked his phone, and all other direct challenges to your authority.

If you don't assert your authority with grim determination here, you will end up with a teenage boy who thinks he owns your house.

100% what @mathanxiety says here.

What is it with 12 yo boys and getting ready?!

My husband and I were left in charge of our godson of the same age to get him to church for his sister’s confirmation. And OMG he just wandered around the house in his underwear.

I finally yelled in to his bedroom that he had 3 choices… 1- he get dressed on his own 2-DH will come in and help him or 3- I would come in and help him.

At about that time DH walked into his room and said ‘look bud, you know her she’s not kidding… Drop the game controller and pick up your socks you’ve got 5 minutes before she’s in here’

Oddly… it was the same conversation that was had with my DH’s best friend on the friend’s wedding day. When I was put in charge of getting the groom and best man to the wedding on time 🤣

OP you’re fine and quite frankly he could do with a lasting memory. He’s not damaged he’s not traumatized and maybe it will give him motivation to not fuck around when other people are waiting for him.

'My daughter is like this, she has an underlying anxiety that makes it difficult to just walk out the house coupled with poor executive functioning that always seems to go hand in hand.'

Yes these both struck me, could this be at play, op? I don't think it sounds like it's coming from a selfish place.

I understand the rage/ranting though. If it's outside of your norm, could you be peri menopausal?

I also think a typical 12yo ought to be ok for an evening at home too

The only issue with leaving him home is that it would show he can opt out of family activities and have a free reign on screens.

That perhaps would be ok occasionally though.

I think if Op's daughter had wanted a family meal out I would expect him to go.

Something she particularly wanted to see doesn't really require his presence imo.

Can we stop with the ‘could you be peri menopausal’ bs? Not everything that happens to a woman is tied to her hormones.

she’s a fed up mum with a kid that needed a reality check.

Why would the PP not say she was 22 when her parents yelled?
She doesnt say she had done the same thing as OPs 12 yo child which is what you possibly understood.

Of course a 12 year old can be left for 4 hours on an evening. I would pick up the pace on leaving him at home.

If you can afford 3 "very expensive" theatre tickets you aren't on the breadline.
A day out soght seeing is nominal cost..
A trip to a nice park with a picnic costs an extra fiver on top on normal food shop.

I also agree with @mathanxiety

I cannot believe I shouted for 20 mins and swore at my darling boy in a moving vehicle that he couldn't get out of so he couldn't walk away from me.

This ^ and much of the wording of your {OP @Lavatera I think is part of the problem.

You are in the wrong dynamic with your child. He's 12 years old. If you are talking to him or telling him off, he is not entitled to walk away from you any more than he is entitled to walk out of a school lesson. He should be showing you respect and your reaction (damaged him/darling boy) to your own anger is excessively cowing to him.

You are the adult and he should be respectful of you. He isn't. That didn't happen yesterday. You need to turn this round asap as it will soon be too late if it isn't already.

I understand why you got so angry, if you have tried not to shout before. Sometimes it's just too much. This is a useful lesson for you i guess and hopefully for your son too, though obviously horrible and sad that it came to this. If you've not seen any improvement in behaviour with what you've been doing sounds like another approach is needed- though parents of teens probably better to advise on what. In the short term I'd be lying to him about needing to leave earlier than you actually do. I would also probably have left him at home and had someone on standby he could call for help or who could pop in to check on him.

OP, why do you consider him too young to be left at home by himself?
Sounds a bit unusual to me.

@saltinesandcoffeecups Fair enough It's usually hormones when it's me ranting though, even if there is a tedious trigger.

'Can we stop with the ‘could you be peri menopausal’ bs? Not everything that happens to a woman is tied to her hormones.

she’s a fed up mum with a kid that needed a reality check.'

They have 100% been done to death.
You're dead right there!

@determinedtomakethiswork I had pnd and then pmdd ( the extreme form of pre menstrual tension - so extreme it's used as a criminal defence) and I flipped like this once in the car. About just generally silly behaviour. My dd (only 6) asked me, 'why are you so angry, mummy?' That kills me remembering it. We were on the way home to my 1 year old. I went straight to my local hospital instead and was treated very kindly and given an immediate anti-depressant prescription. I did this because something had snapped in me. I knew I wasn't in control. I knew I wasn't safe going home.
Thank god, I'm on the second anti-depressant now (first one stopped my bladder working) and I'm balanced. I get grumpy around my period, but not out of my mind any more.
You've recognised that you lost control. Could it be hormonally induced at all, OP? Not that the situation wasn't horrendous. (If only he could have been left with someone. Dressed in the car. etc etc.

I mean, I was about to question this myself.
Was it emotional abuse?
I've never shouted at him before. I've never sworn at him before. This was the first time ever. I went loopy, that's for sure. Does this constitute child emotional abuse?😰

I'm very cynical about this modern idea that parents should never shout because it's so unrealistic as to be completely useless advice. Sometimes bad things happen, people get hurt and their emotions are going to show. Life isn't all fluffy talks about feelings.

I've only read your posts, @123FirstBabyDumbo. I don't blame you for raging, it was understandable, and you should apologise for it to both kids (as you have done).

Re: DS and timekeeping. I reluctantly empathise with him! I have massive anxiety about appointed times, will procrastinate against my own better judgement, and have driven no end of people to the ends of their tethers.

I'm fully aware it's a problem. I've been over and over it in therapy. I know what to do ... and, nine times out ten, I don't do it. I've got no answers. 'Time blindness' is a thing - many sources associate it with ADHD/ASD; I suspect it can exist by itself, or with a minimal amount of other symptoms.

Does DS also extend time after an activity's supposed to have finished? I mostly succeeded in getting employers to put up with my morning lateness because I'll quite happily carry on working after hours.

It would obviously be better not to have to negotiate around it, make extra efforts or pay for a second flight after I've missed mine 😬 If DS can take enough of a step back to think about how set times make him feel, and perhaps start strategising on ways to dodge the anxiety, there's a chance he could knock this on the head while he's young enough and his brain's still growing.

Other people might have better ideas (I'm beyond salvation) but, for me, a key point is that it is NOT necessary to plan for the minimum time to arrival - this is what he was doing when googling the 'correct' travel time. It's actually OK to arrive half an hour early.

It's also fine to be ready to go well in advance. You can allow two whole hours for getting washed, changing outfits several times, fixing your hair and having a poo. That should leave half an hour before your maximal planned journey time, during which you're free to breathe deeply, admire your hair or whatever, feel great about being so relaxed, and quietly check you've got everything.

Wishing him and you the best of luck!

Completely understand as I have a similar heel-dragging, disorganised DS. He's now 20 and marginally improved but let me tell you, I went for years and years of being tolerant and patient but between the ages of 13 & 17 I lost my shit, shouted, swore on more than one occasion... SO not proud of any of it but there's only so much of that behaviour one person can take before just losing your rag completely.

Don't beat yourself up, I haven't RTFT but am assuming you've debriefed/talked it through/apologised for the swearing/made a plan for how things will be different next time. Breathe and count to 200...... x

For some reason I thought it was his treat, not your DD's. I would have lost my shit with him too. Sitting in totally predictable traffic for ages, late, lost the lovely seats that were for her birthday. And sometimes it is not possible to get them to listen without being very loud. I'm generally regarded as one of the more patient parents but I have sometimes found that I literally cannot get my kid to get up and put her shoes on, where her failure to do so is not just making her late for school but me late for work where punctuality is an absolute must, without shouting at the top of my voice. Which upsets both of us. But there it is.

@Lavatera No, I don't think so. He ruined your DD's treat and this habit has to be curbed now, or he'd get the same reactions from other people soon enough. I was in your DD's position, and I wish my parents had repeated my treat.

@Lavatera I actually think it's strange and not great that you have never shouted at him before. Sometimes kids act like little entitled shits and make us angry. He pushed every boundary and ruined your DD's birthday. Not great to go into a 20 min tirade in the car but that's a consequence of you never having done that before. There was probably so much bottled frustration, it had to come out.

You should reflect more about why you treat DS so gently, at the expense of your DD.

Not disciplining your DS is one thing. Allowing him to ruin it all for his siblings is another.

I’m pleased he was sorry, but this is where you put your foot down and say I am the adult, I have lived in this town and been driving with experience of rush hour for x years, I knew how long was required and I requested you be ready accordingly. Even if I had played it safe, overestimated and we were early, that is my choice to ensure we didn’t not miss an event that I had spent an enormous amount of money on. I may have said oh look you were right we are early, but let’s relax with a drink. But you are allowed to set rules for when you want to leave, traffic or no traffic. Apology is good, but consequences are still needed to impress how serious it is. Take the money from him to take dd again. His future girlfriend will thank you for the lesson.