To have yelled and sworn at DS 12 for 20 minutes non stop in the car

[Lavatera]

Help.
I think I'm going mad and I've damaged my precious DS 12.
I haven't slept all night and I can't stop thinking that the baby I fell so in love with 12 years ago has been yelled and sworn at by me 12 years later.
I feel so, so sad, I don't know what to do with myself.
Yesterday, we had to drive to a town 50 minutes away to see a theatre production.
It was a special treat for my DD's (10) birthday present.
The performance started at 6pm so I knew we'd be driving through rush hour traffic, and the A roads between where we live and this town are well known to be hell at rush hour.
I really wanted to arrive early, in time to find parking, pay on the parking meter, and get to the theatre with enough to sit and have drinks together before going in to the performance. Not to mention I paid a fortune for a family ticket, but it was a show that DD really wanted to see.
So I'd spent 2 days telling DS that he must absolutely make sure that he was ready to walk out of the house at the time I'd set, I told him the time we needed to leave, and I reminded him at regular intervals.
On top of that, I was prompting him an hour before to start getting ready, 45 mins before, 30 mins before, 15 mins before.....he kept telling me I was overestimating the travel time because he'd checked his phone and seen it was only a 35 minute drive. No, I said, that's wrong, it takes 50 minutes, plus it's rush hour so we need to add extra time, plus I need to allow time to park and pay, and I want to arrive ahead of the show starting. I explained to him it was a special evening out and that he must be ready on time.
Nope. He was wasn't ready to leave. I mean by this point I was tailgating him around the house telling him to get dressed, get ready, etc.
So the time came to leave, me and DD had been ready for ages, I'd sent DS upstairs to get dressed, but DS still wasn't dressed, hair not brushed, shoes not on, at the time we had to leave.
Turns out that instead of going upstairs to get dressed and brush his hair like I'd asked him repeatedly to do, he'd decided to ho and sit on the toilet for 30 minutes 'in case he needed to go whilst at the theatre' and he walked out of the bathroom completely not ready.
I started stressing, I knew what the roads would be like, I ended up physically putting his clothes in his hands and telling him to dress, I brushed his hair, he was arguing at me to 'calm down' because I was annoyed by this point. It took him ages then faffing around, before we eventually got in the car 35 minutes later than the time I'd set.
We set off, and I lost it with him. I knew the tailbacks we'd face on the roads and I just developed this irrational anger. I shouted and shouted and shouted. And swore. Oh my God. I was shouting "YOU'RE SO SELFISH! YOU'VE MADE US LATE! YOU'VE RUINED THE EVENING! WE'RE GOUNG TO MISS THE SHOW! THEY WON'T LET US IN IF WE ARRIVE LATE! WE'RE FUCKING LAAAAAATE! LOOK AT THE FUCKING TRAFFIC!!!!! WHY HAVE YOU DONE THIS????" Honestly, I was like a woman possessed. I could not stop shouting. And I didn't stop raging for 20 full minutes. I was shouting so loud he had his fingers in his ears. DD was upset by my shouting.
I can't believe I shouted and swore like that.
For background, he makes us late for almost every single thing we ever have to be on time for. He's made us late for so many important events by just not listening to all my instructions and prompts and motivation and chivvying him along.....nothing, literally nothing works to get him out the house on time. Not even the threat of school detentions when he can't get ready even with my help in time in the mornings.
Christmas. I cannot believe I shouted for 20 mins and swore at my darling boy in a moving vehicle that he couldn't get out of so he couldn't walk away from me.
And upset DD in the process.
So the traffic was gridlock.
We arrived late, missed the start of the show, they let us in but wouldn't let us sit in our seats, they stuck us at the back in staff seats where we couldn't see very well (I'd bought prime position front central seats, I could see them sitting empty), and we all had a miserable evening.

Not great but I’ve been there. If you’re a busy parent who has never had a meltdown at your kid occasionally I applaud you. It’s fucking hard.

apologise to him and move on, don’t take him if there is a next time.

I understand that it is 'normalised' but I still don't see why a 12 year old would need a phone.

It's a unpopular and divisive opinion but I think it is actually neglectful to give a kid so young a smart phone with access to the internet/social media. Might not be the case for OP obviously, but so many parents do allow social media for thier kids, assuming that their child 'will ne sensible' or 'ask for help' if they need it, or they assume the phone has all the parental locks etc (trust me: teens figure out the work around and tell each other). The grim statistics would prove that these devices are very harmful to young minds.

Is this tongue in cheek?

‘No bad behaviour only undiagnosed conditions’

I guess we should let all the prisoners out then. Poor things having consequences when it’s not their fault.

I would do this too.

Got to say that I would never shout at an adult for 20 mins let alone a child. But stuff like this happened to me as a kid so I guess my perspective may be different to others.

Did you miss all of the first half OP? Because all theatres will let you go to your intended seats after the interval.

Yep, I would also just remind him once then leave him behind. Same with school. He can deal with the consequences and you will feel calmer.

In the context of an otherwise loving relationship your DS and DD wont be scarred for life by a one off. But that whole evening and the 20 minutes in the car in particular were extremely bad for you OP. Losing control and raging is really bad for your MH, never mind the guilt you feel now. I could actually remember the feeling of the blood rising, the stress and the headache to follow.
You absolutely need a preventative plan, because its impossible to force a child DSs age to comply in the moment. So I'd not be arranging any time sensitive events unless I had a fall back that meant I could leave without him if needs must. I'd also be introducing some planned sanctions for this type of behaviour such as loss of privileges and treats, to act as deterrent and give an appropriate punishment for non compliance.

I wish people would stop with the ND-diagnosing every time someone behaves badly. People with ADHD are not intentionally late. They don't still move at a snail's pace when they know they are late.

This boy chose to not get ready because he did not want to get ready. He talked back to his mother about the time it would take to get there. He pushed back against her instructions. And even when they were late to leave, he still didn't hurry. This was all an arrogant, controlling "fuck you" to his mother.

Well whilst at home with me going on and on at him to get ready and spelling out every single reason why we needed to leave way ahead of time, for about the 20th time, he was all "Chill out! We've got loads of time! We don't need to leave yet, my phone says it's a 37 minute journey!"
When we got in the car he was looking at me like he couldn't understand what I was getting stressed about.
Then when we hit the gridlock tailback traffic and couldn't move on the road, and he could see it stretching out for a mile ahead of us, he looked at me with big wide eyes, looked really worried, and said "Oh no......I'm so sorry mum" and spent the rest of the journey looking very worried and apologising repeatedly saying "I didn't realise the traffic would be like this". But that just set me off again cos I shouted "I'VE BEEN TELLING YOU FOR 3 DAYS THE TRAFFIC WILL BE LIKE THIS!!!!!! I'VE TOLD YOU MULTIPLE TIMES IN THE PAST 2 HOURS! YOUR SISTER LISTENED WHY WOULDN'T YOU?!!! RAAAAH!!!"
Oh my God.
I'm still shocked at myself nearly 24 hours later!

@Lavatera well good. Maybe it worked and has shocked him into sorting himself out!

My DS15 is just like this - zero fucks are given. I finally snapped at Easter and left him behind. Yes I lost the money for his ticket for the outing but it meant we didn’t miss out too. He’s since researched his behaviour and thinks he has “time optimism” ; leaving him behind was the wake up call he needed.

Ps and I have done a lot of shouting and swearing ; I have been you in the car before.

I understand your reaction, sounds like the straw that broke the camel's back. Thank you for being honest. Parenting is hard. 💐you will all laugh about it one day, he was wrong and your reaction was too far but apologise and move on. Its OK not to be perfect x

He's 12. He should have been ready ... or left at home.

In that case @Lavatera Hopefully it won't happen again as he understands you were right. You also needed time to park, get settled, etc etc before it started not just the time it got to actually get there. He definitely needed a telling off.

Hopefully now, today, you can tell him you are sorry you swore, but point out to him calmly that it wasn't just the time to actually get there, but all the extra time needed over and above just travelling? I would still have some sanctions for him though - even if it's just taking your daughter for another treat without him!! Just to reinforce the message?

I agree. In the rush to excuse every bad behavior away with ND it is hurtful to people who actual are ND to be lumped into all persons who are ND will have bad behavior. ND is like anything else some may have behavior issues and some do not. It's not fair and leads to the stigma we see against ND.

Why are people psychoanalysing this kid?! Classic mumsnet. He was being arrogant and thought he knew better than his mum. Mum's reaction was less than ideal but on the plus side it does sound like he realised he'd f'd up the minute he saw the traffic and showed remorse which is half the battle.

The trouble is OP whether he's traumatised or not by your outburst it probably isn't going to teach him anything. I agree with pp who are saying next time leave him. I'd talk to him and suggest he makes some sort of gesture towards his sister for spoiling her birthday treat, perhaps uses pocket money to buy tickets for her to see the show again or buys her some merchandise from the show.

I think what bugs me about labelling everything with a diagnosis is the frankly quite insulting premise that seems to come with it... that anyone with nd is incapable of reacting to consequences or self-improvement. Devil's advocate he has undiagnosed ADHD. He's still going to get sacked if he's persistently late for work in a few years. There's only so much other people can adapt to him. It's not going to be much of a life for him if he doesn't learn to adapt. If anything I'd say it's even more vital that you show someone who's nd clear consequences as this will help them make the associations needed to manage this.

See my message to @Springchickenonion xx

What punishment would you choose, that really gets the message home of truly understanding the level of annoyance and anger he has caused.
and truly knowing that if he is part of it happening again that there will be an escalating series of punishments.

He knew what he was doing and weighed up the punishment against whatever benefit was in it for him.
(a) He thought he was going to show up his mother as a Silly Bint with her 50 minutes. That vanity needs to be rooted out and put on a bonfire.
(b) He had no compunction about ruining his sister’s birthday, whilst assuming his own will survive intact. Big Mistake.

What would you have done?

Exactly. It's this kind of attitude that stigmatizes persons that are ND. Plenty of people if all ages with ND behave fine and it is insulting to lumped all together.

So he actually admitted it was deliberate, didn't he?

I hope he feels shit. I also hope he's made to pay for the ticket price and that you treat your DD to something just for her with it.

He can stay home with no WiFi or phone and maybe consider WHY he's not included in this trip.....

Agree with not giving him information that he doesn’t need and next time just leave him, pre warning that you are leaving at specific time and he will have to stay behind if he’s not in the car at that time.

I think you should feel more guilty for your DD. Your DS had it coming and maybe some harsh treatment might be just help him realise his selfishness. I would make him pay for the tickets as you missed the start and didn't get to use your tickets. I don't think you should take him to the next thing he wants to do either.

I couldn't leave without him though.
He's too young to be left alone at home for the duration of time we were going to be out for.
An hour, yes. But over 4 hours, evening time, no. Not at 12.
And that was part of the sheer stress, knowing that I literally could not leave without him. He's 5 ft 4, as tall as me, so I couldn't even just pick him up and plonk him in the car!!

ah OP, having seen your updates - he has hopefully learned a VERY important lesson.

I'd be putting him on notice that you expect to be listened to. Not because you know everything and are always right, but because you are his mum with a lifetime of experience, and you are teaching him how to navigate this world.

Ask him what he would do differently if you said "ok next friday we're going to x. It will be heavier than usual traffic so i am leaving y amount of leeway time..." etc etc.