To have yelled and sworn at DS 12 for 20 minutes non stop in the car

[Lavatera]

Help.
I think I'm going mad and I've damaged my precious DS 12.
I haven't slept all night and I can't stop thinking that the baby I fell so in love with 12 years ago has been yelled and sworn at by me 12 years later.
I feel so, so sad, I don't know what to do with myself.
Yesterday, we had to drive to a town 50 minutes away to see a theatre production.
It was a special treat for my DD's (10) birthday present.
The performance started at 6pm so I knew we'd be driving through rush hour traffic, and the A roads between where we live and this town are well known to be hell at rush hour.
I really wanted to arrive early, in time to find parking, pay on the parking meter, and get to the theatre with enough to sit and have drinks together before going in to the performance. Not to mention I paid a fortune for a family ticket, but it was a show that DD really wanted to see.
So I'd spent 2 days telling DS that he must absolutely make sure that he was ready to walk out of the house at the time I'd set, I told him the time we needed to leave, and I reminded him at regular intervals.
On top of that, I was prompting him an hour before to start getting ready, 45 mins before, 30 mins before, 15 mins before.....he kept telling me I was overestimating the travel time because he'd checked his phone and seen it was only a 35 minute drive. No, I said, that's wrong, it takes 50 minutes, plus it's rush hour so we need to add extra time, plus I need to allow time to park and pay, and I want to arrive ahead of the show starting. I explained to him it was a special evening out and that he must be ready on time.
Nope. He was wasn't ready to leave. I mean by this point I was tailgating him around the house telling him to get dressed, get ready, etc.
So the time came to leave, me and DD had been ready for ages, I'd sent DS upstairs to get dressed, but DS still wasn't dressed, hair not brushed, shoes not on, at the time we had to leave.
Turns out that instead of going upstairs to get dressed and brush his hair like I'd asked him repeatedly to do, he'd decided to ho and sit on the toilet for 30 minutes 'in case he needed to go whilst at the theatre' and he walked out of the bathroom completely not ready.
I started stressing, I knew what the roads would be like, I ended up physically putting his clothes in his hands and telling him to dress, I brushed his hair, he was arguing at me to 'calm down' because I was annoyed by this point. It took him ages then faffing around, before we eventually got in the car 35 minutes later than the time I'd set.
We set off, and I lost it with him. I knew the tailbacks we'd face on the roads and I just developed this irrational anger. I shouted and shouted and shouted. And swore. Oh my God. I was shouting "YOU'RE SO SELFISH! YOU'VE MADE US LATE! YOU'VE RUINED THE EVENING! WE'RE GOUNG TO MISS THE SHOW! THEY WON'T LET US IN IF WE ARRIVE LATE! WE'RE FUCKING LAAAAAATE! LOOK AT THE FUCKING TRAFFIC!!!!! WHY HAVE YOU DONE THIS????" Honestly, I was like a woman possessed. I could not stop shouting. And I didn't stop raging for 20 full minutes. I was shouting so loud he had his fingers in his ears. DD was upset by my shouting.
I can't believe I shouted and swore like that.
For background, he makes us late for almost every single thing we ever have to be on time for. He's made us late for so many important events by just not listening to all my instructions and prompts and motivation and chivvying him along.....nothing, literally nothing works to get him out the house on time. Not even the threat of school detentions when he can't get ready even with my help in time in the mornings.
Christmas. I cannot believe I shouted for 20 mins and swore at my darling boy in a moving vehicle that he couldn't get out of so he couldn't walk away from me.
And upset DD in the process.
So the traffic was gridlock.
We arrived late, missed the start of the show, they let us in but wouldn't let us sit in our seats, they stuck us at the back in staff seats where we couldn't see very well (I'd bought prime position front central seats, I could see them sitting empty), and we all had a miserable evening.

I agree.

Apologise for how you handled it oP but make sure he knows that he’d definitely done something out of line to trigger it. Life will bite you if you are inconsiderate and frankly a bit of an intransigent smart Alec ( all normal for his age, but he still needs to learn to move through this phase.)

The power balance is weird here. Dd15 has a dance class smack in the middle of rush hour. She used to petition to leave later etc “why are we leaving now it’s only 10 minutes drive”. My response is “we are leaving now get in” which she did. And yes it does take 30 mins always does due to traffic. He had a flipping cheek questioning you and pushing back. He is the child and follows your instruction.

I wish my mum was more like this with my brother. He was always doing things like this and it would make everything so tense and stressful. I never understood why I was held to a higher standard than he was and he was never reprimanded for causing grief constantly through his own laziness, selfishness and arrogance.

Fast forward about 20 years and his life is absolutely shambolic as he's never been asked to take any accountability for his behavior. Always struggled with work, hasn't got any mates, got kicked out of uni for never showing up etc. He really is a nasty piece of work but still coddled by my mum.

I know yelling for that long seems extreme but this wasn't a one off and I've seen first hand how miserable life can be if people just keep letting it slide. It'll likely be the kick up the arse he needs, or the beginning to you finding support for him if that's what is required

It's not ideal but you're only human.

Did he acknowledge the fact that you ended up being late? Frankly I'd be minded to make him pay for the tickets.

I'd be sitting him down and apologising but making clear that you're the parent and if you say you're leaving at x time he is to be ready. Not play silly buggers with timings.

I would have left him home. And would continue to leave him each and every time he's not ready when he's supposed to be ready. So he'd miss all the family treats if he can't be on time. He's 12, not a baby, perfectly capable dressing/sorting his hair out when needed. Want to go? Get ready. Not ready? Not going. So I'd apologize for shouting and raving and would tell him the above.

That's what my parents did. No fannying about and babying. Clean your room, sort it out. Still a tip after a while? It means you don't need all that shit, so it goes in the bin. No more mess after that. And so on. My own DD gets the same. So her room is in order, we're always on time, all good.

The good thing is he is old enough now to stay at home. The bad thing is that you are wound so tight about it; obviously it's doing your head in.

I agree with the posters who say lots of apologies - he says sorry to his sister, and to you, you apologise for the shouting. And then accept that he doesn't have to come to lots of things, but the choice is be ready on time or not go. If he chooses to go and makes you late again, you will not hesitate to leave without him, and after that you won't buy him tickets because it's a waste of time and money.

You and his sister deserve more respect than he was showing.

The problem is my guess is he wasn’t that keen to go. So he kind of gets his way with that …

My response is “we are leaving now get in” which she did.

Presumably she wanted to go though?

He if wants an outing for his next bday I'd be tempted not to on the grounds that he might not be ready to leave on time & even more money would be wasted.

This sounds SO frustrating. I can totally understand why you snapped.
However, what I would say would be to apologise for the way you spoke to him but have a calm discussion about timekeeping. Also, ask him to apologise to his sister if he hasn't already.
Another thing to consider would be ADHD. If he's constantly late for everything, it could be time blindness which is a symptom of ADHD.

Don't take him to anything else just go with your daughter in future and leave him with someone if you can. Of course the other thing to do is book tickets for something he really want's to see and then do the same to him. That may help to get the message across.

I don't think shouting at him for 20 minutes was much help.
Next time you say we are leaving at x time and he's been reminded to get ready. Tell him you're off and leave without him. Doing this once or twice usually gets the message across.

This is very disrespectful on his part. What did he say after the theater? Did he apologize?

I think you need to teach him a lesson. Make up another event in a couple of weeks time, tell him the time to be ready but also tell him that he will be left behind if he is not ready on time. He is 12 so he can be left home alone, prepare some sandwiches for him.

DO NOT nag on him or chase him around the house, just remind him once not twice only one time when to be ready. Obviously, he will be late and you and your DD just leave and let him know that there is a sandwich in the fridge.

Do not get affected by him wanting to join just tell him that even if he goes to get ready now, he's missed his chance. Don't engage in any conversation just hug him and leave the house you just need to drive around the corner and wait there.
Come back after 30 min or 1 hour or so as if nothing happened and carry on with the day to day.

My ds has never been that bad but from age 12 (he's almost 19 now) if alone he leaves the house with barely any time to spare, last minute always. Getting a train for example he will go for the latest train he can get ti arrive somewhere on time.
He's always respected it though if we're going somewhere like the theatre /cinema etc. There have been occasions where I've said for visiting mum (who lives 3 mins walk away) or shopping that we were going about 30 minutes earlier than we were - knowing he would then be ready for the activity at the actual time we needed to go! Would you that work for you, Op? Maybe you need to let him be late for school too although I know that's so hard to do.

I disagree with everyone saying leave him at home. That's a reward for not getting ready.

I know it's difficult at a certain age, but the treat is for the whole family to celebrate the DD's birthday and my DS in his teens would have been only too happy to get an opt out of family occasions. Part of the pleasure of these events is the whole family celebrating and for me it would have been unacceptable for the kids/ teenagers to decide they're going to live atomised lives as though they're not part of a family. A family member has a birthday, all family members celebrate. At a certain age they can opt out, but not at 12.

I think the answer is having a spare outfit and shoes ready in the car and a threat to take away the phone and internet access if DS isn't ready at a certain time.

As for the yelling, it's not great but most of us lose it like that at least once and our kids don't turn into nervous wrecks because of it.

It sounds like ADHD, absolute textbook. You are right to do the time countdown warnings but may need more intervention like actually making sure he is doing what he is meant to and breaking it down into smaller steps and single actions. They can get better and learn to manage their time. Sometimes it takes medication. But they won't be a perfectly formed, organised adult at 12. They might be a lot better at it by 15 though, with your guidance.

Also, no it isn't reasonable to shout at someone for full on twenty minutes. Otherwise where do you go from here? Show you are irritated and cross, sure. For the sake of your own bloody pressure and relationship with him, and yours and his mental health, calm the fuck down or by the time he is 14 or 15, he will really be giving you something to shout about.

Have a look at what is really going on here, what is causing you to be so angry and frustrated in an alarming and over the top way.

First things first, could you have gone without him? If so then I suggest in future you do that - 3 strikes and you're out, if you're not ready, you're not coming. If not then frankly I don't blame you - that's ridiculous behaviour and actually really disrespectful to both you and your daughter, whose birthday treat it was. He's basically saying he's more important and he doesn't care that things will be ruined. I'd have lost it too I'm afraid.

I'd have left him behind and gone with just DD. It's not worth the hassle of taking him if he causes this much stress.

You're human. You reached the end of your tether because of his disgraceful behaviour. I might apologise for actually swearing at him while at the same time telling him that he fully deserved the bollocking he got.

I find it astonishing how many ADHD experts frequent the boards of mumsnet, proclaiming that any child who is having difficulties must have ADHD. Or autism.

Funnily enough, I have ADHD and so does my son. ADHD people can be on time, and different rules do not apply to us, and it does no one any favours to suggest otherwise. If you're late for the train, the train leaves without you. Or in this case, the show starts without you.

It would be great if people could stop trotting it put as an answer/excuse for everything.

Even if he does have ADHD - he knows what he is doing. ADHD does not equal stupidity. He's been told countless times. He can hear you. Time for him to face the consequences - just start leaving him behind when he does this.

Not the point.. but why would a twelve year old need a phone?!

The current spate of threads where the OP never comes back is growing really tiresome.

I'm wondering if the same person is behind them all.

Yes, YABU for swearing and shouting for 20 mins. Abusive behaviour imho. What he did didn't justify that reaction, although obviously your post is written to invite people to sympathise with you.

There are lots of reasons to 12-year-old might have a phone. It's very normal and there's nothing wrong with it. Can you genuinely not understand why it normal?

This. He needs to start having his outings ruined and see what it's like. Poor dd this was so unfair to her.

Whether it is or isn’t ADHD then the world and family can’t revolve around him. OP even prompted him numerous times and with lots of notice. I have a neurodiversity that makes time management tricky, problem is my colleagues, patients, children etc don’t care about that. So l leave the house in plenty of time, have reminders on my phone, laptop etc