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Need to go off work with stress - but don’t want it marked as stress

417 replies

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 09:56

Im sure this will set people off but I want to know if there’s a way of “faking” something that a doctor will sign me off for that isn’t stress.

I work in the civil service and I know people that have been signed off with stress thatve had their cards marked forever and later managed out of the business - obviously not for the stress reason though.

Im really struggling with everything at home at the moment and work is the only thing I can see that can give right now.

My 4 year son recently got an echp agreed but they’ve refused to name a specialist setting - they’re saying a non verbal, not potty trained child can cope in mainstream. It’s ridiculous - all the professionals agree except the local authority. So we’re taking them to tribunal - hopefully should be fast tracked as he’s due to start school in September.

I have an older child who has coped with everything really well but is acting out at the moment as me and his dad have been so occupied with sorting our other child and the EHCP.

I have an unwell parent who I’ve had to run to the hospital a lot.

I work 4 days a week in a busy managerial role in the civil service and I just can’t cope. I’m behind on things and I’m sure I’m going to drop a massive ball soon and really bugger something up.

I can’t sleep for the worry of it all.

Please help. I know people will say I should be signed off with stress but I’ve seen what happens to people that have been.

also - I don’t know how it works. Will they ring me repeatedly trying to get me back into work asap? I think that will stress me out even more ☹️

OP posts:
Locutus2000 · 13/06/2024 13:34

OP, I had a lot of time off with stress when I was in the public sector. My wonderful GP at the time would sign me off with 'Neurasthenia' which I never had questioned.

It is technically correct, sounds like a 'proper' diagnosis but provides little to go on.

siameselife · 13/06/2024 13:40

Dartwarbler · 13/06/2024 13:29

I’ve managed teams for a long time with all sorts of long term sickness

first thing is you will need to see a GP anyway. The GP is likely to only sign you off for 2 weeks at a time, and will only do this if they feel it is a legitimate case of stress symptoms or whatever medical condition they think it is likely to be. Almost certainly they will then talk to you about getting help for your mental well-being- either a course of antidepressants, getting you on list for counselling , or regular exercise in terms of walking . They’ll talk to you about reasons for the stress, as in itself it’s not an illness as such, but a symptom, and what you can do to get support you need. You need to be up front and truthful . The bottom line is if youfeel you can’t cope you need to address anyway, otherwise you’ll end up dropping out of working entirely

you also need to know that general medical guidance has long been the sooner people go back into the normal daily routines like work, the better. Signing someone off for 6 months increases the likelihood of them never being able to deal with their previous life. It is all about how NHS support you in developing mental resilience

The Gp may put initial 2 weeks down to something else if you express concerns. But they probably won’t. Sick notes (or wellness notes as they’re now referred to) are legal documents - so whatever is diagnosis will normally go down

you submit this to work. BUT the cause of your illness is medically confidential so would normally not be sent to your manager unless small company. More likely to HR or a subcontracted out service. No one will do anything with it other than set up claim for sick leave at that stage - UNLESS you have a history of absenteeism. Or unless it specifically puts down a work related cause.

once you then go back to GP for an extension, your company may well ask you to talk to an occupational health person or a GP or their choosing to do an independent assessment of your health and reason for absence. The longer you are signed off (in normally 2 week extensions) the more likely that will become. You I’ll be asked if you are willing to have the assessment shared with HR and your line manager. HR and your line manager can ask spepcifc question for the assessor to ask you.

normally, even where stress or mental health issues are involved, people agree that this info can be shared to a certain degree with management. If for instance, stress is not caused by work but another factor - management will be told it is not work related stress but not the cause of the stress typically.

The assessment will also be looking carefully at how you are “helping yourself”: are you in queue for therapy (can you go private maybe?), are you taking meds, are you finding solutions to ease your stress like getting home help etc etc.

they’ll also be talking to you about reasonable adjustments. In most reputable companies they’ll want to try to get you back asap but with reduced hours over phased return.

if work is a cause of stress, or contributing factor, then HSE law means company must do risk assessment. That is why they want to know. If they don’t , and they don’t do risk assessment it can all get very messy legally for both of you.

most companies do not look kindly on people who do not agree to a independent assessment when they’re claiming sock leave pay. It send the spidery senses into full alert as why would you not cooperate if a legitimate illness? Similarly not giving consent to share the basic medical diagnosis with HR tends to be a bit frowned on…again given it’s not going to be passed on or kept why the concerns?

being signed off work for 6 months because that’s how long your sick pay lasts, is not a solution, OP. No GP is going to sign you off for that in one, two or even 3 hits. No company is going to agree to paying that without wanting to do their own assessment because of what it costs them. And, most importantly it will NOT solve your issues. People being signed off for 6months, or even a full month in one hit, is usually reserved for where there is a known physical condition that has a known recovery time. As stress is a symptom of something else, that’s going to make it even more difficult to predict, it will entirely depend on causes, treatments and circumstances.

You have specific issue that are causing you stress. You are overloaded, and you MUST to reduce your load. You need to strictly figure out what you personally cannot delegate, and then delegate very thing else or just stop it. You can do this for 1 month and see how you get on. I think seeing GP and talking through how you feel and maybe be signed off for 2 weeks may just be able to get you some respite mentally, and fix the underlying issues. But there aren’t magic fairies that’ll fix this…and stopping work on extended sick leave won’t fix it either. You could make your overall mental health worse in fact.

You have to do something to change what you can control.

I think this is very sensible balanced advice OP.

TheUndoing · 13/06/2024 13:48

I’m a civil servant, and I appreciate you are having a hard time, but I do think this is a bit of a piss take. It’s not the tax payers responsibility to provide you with 6 months on full pay because of stress that has nothing to do with work.

ilovesooty · 13/06/2024 13:49

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 11:34

I actually really love my job, it’s important for me and my mental health and I really like my colleagues.

I don’t want to leave. But I just can’t do everything right now

Get the doctor to put family stress on the fit note.

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 13:50

TheUndoing · 13/06/2024 13:48

I’m a civil servant, and I appreciate you are having a hard time, but I do think this is a bit of a piss take. It’s not the tax payers responsibility to provide you with 6 months on full pay because of stress that has nothing to do with work.

This is exactly the sort of reason I thought I had to lie.

Ive worked for the CS for 18 years - joined the grad scheme out of uni and have only taken off my maternity leave and a few days here and there for being unwell that entire time.

I love my job and don’t want to have to leave.

People like you are the reason I probably will have to.

I sincerely hope nothing happens to you to impact your health while you’re working.

OP posts:
Noseyoldcow · 13/06/2024 13:57

TheUndoing · 13/06/2024 13:48

I’m a civil servant, and I appreciate you are having a hard time, but I do think this is a bit of a piss take. It’s not the tax payers responsibility to provide you with 6 months on full pay because of stress that has nothing to do with work.

You're supportive, aren't you? OP isn't asking to bum around on sick leave as long as she can, she just wants a bit of time to sort out her genuine stress and exhaustion to rests and hopefully sort out her home problems. She understandably doesn't want sick leave due to stress on her personnel record.
I think OP, you should discuss with your doctor. He/she may be able to suggest what to sign you off with other than stress. For example, when I was first pregnant years ago and didn't want to tell work yet but was being affected with all day nausea, he signed me off for a week with gastric problems.

ilovesooty · 13/06/2024 13:58

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 13:15

Thank you for this.

I think that after considering everything I need to be honest with work and perhaps I could reduce my workload a bit or take away a few of my direct reports.

Im a project manager and have way too many on right now.

And in reality you’re right - I won’t be able to lie about this.

Have you considered self referring to Mental Health Access to Work? They would support you to approach your manager to draw up a wellbeing support plan.

PeonySeasons · 13/06/2024 13:59

CertainAppealToIt · 13/06/2024 13:10

I would also recommend being honest op. I think the CS are more likely to just want to manage out anyone with high sickness % rather than MH conditions, so you'd likely be in the same boat.

However. If you really, really wanted it to be something physical...headaches. You'd need to go the whole hog though. Call in sick for two days, tell them you have the most awful headache. Go back for two days. Call in sick again with the same. Go see a GP, describe all the symptoms of cluster headaches you've experienced over a couple of weeks (without appearing to know what CH are) but add in that you've been so worried about it you've not been sleeping, are exhausted, now can't concentrate, you're worried about making mistakes in work and having to drive and you're experiencing anxiety. The liklihood is that GP will sign you off for a couple of weeks (push for a month) with primary cause of headache...and will give you meds, possibly order other tests. Don't take them, see the GP again after a few weeks, say they stopped temporarily but are now back with a vengeance. Rinse and repeat as long as you can.

Cluster headaches are literally that...you can get a cluster of them for x weeks or months then they just stop. Sometimes for years or forever. Very hard to prove, diagnose and treat. It's not uncommon to still be searching for a medication or treatment that works when the cluster ends after X months and you no longer need the treatment.

Do research into CH and if you feel the need, I'd do that. But you need to be able to stone cold lie about it which not everyone is capable of.

**Edited to add my sympathy and best wishes op. Ignore the righteous, unempathetic holier than thou posters. What you're experiencing is stress and burnout, it's real and fucking miserable and sometimes all you need is time to breathe. And yes, work is the best thing to give if you have full sick pay.

Edited

Again, fuck off telling people to fake migraine and in this case, cluster headache. Cluster headache is known as the suicide headache for a reason (ask me how I know!).

Lying minimises the experiences of those of with these conditions and makes it so much harder for us to be taken seriously. STOP IT!

PeonySeasons · 13/06/2024 14:01

TheUndoing · 13/06/2024 13:48

I’m a civil servant, and I appreciate you are having a hard time, but I do think this is a bit of a piss take. It’s not the tax payers responsibility to provide you with 6 months on full pay because of stress that has nothing to do with work.

Do you're OK with people taking sick leave when, exactly?

Grieving a parent or a child?
Broken leg?
Cancer treatment?
D&V?

None are work related injuries or illnesses. And that is not what sick leave is restricted to.

Dartwarbler · 13/06/2024 14:02

TheUndoing · 13/06/2024 13:48

I’m a civil servant, and I appreciate you are having a hard time, but I do think this is a bit of a piss take. It’s not the tax payers responsibility to provide you with 6 months on full pay because of stress that has nothing to do with work.

Hmm, I don’t disagree re taking the piss in setting it to achieve 6 months sick pay via deception…if that applies

BUT , I think you’re confusing sick pay and causes related to work. Almost ALL sick leave causes are not related to work 🤦🏼‍♀️ that includes stress, depression , and even the most common cause of sick leave musculoskeletal- by your argument why would a person why ripped a tendon or broken an ankle on their ski holiday Be entitled to sick pay…what about the person who finds out they’re loved one is dying, what about the smoker with lung cancers in a company that bans smoking entirely

. Sick pay is there for whatever reasons are for illness…as long as that legitimate and the individual is trying to do their part in getting better.

Dartwarbler · 13/06/2024 14:03

PeonySeasons · 13/06/2024 14:01

Do you're OK with people taking sick leave when, exactly?

Grieving a parent or a child?
Broken leg?
Cancer treatment?
D&V?

None are work related injuries or illnesses. And that is not what sick leave is restricted to.

Snap 🤣

Sdpbody · 13/06/2024 14:05

Realistically, if your youngest does end up at a mainstream school, you will be called frequently to come and get him. What are your long term plans for managing this.

I understand that this is shit, but you have to think in the long term.

Clarefromwork · 13/06/2024 14:08

People are giving advice based on their own situations and not reading what op has put.

Could you go off sick but join a union incase they do try anything funny further down the line?

Also check if you have a sabbatical policy as where I work you get 40% of pay. (Although that may not be enough if they do offer it )

Hope things get better for you, it sounds really tough

Ponche · 13/06/2024 14:11

I don’t have any advice re your work situation, but just wanted to say I understand how stressful, worrying and all-consuming it can be raising a child with additional needs and then managing the EHCP process on top of that as well. My DD is a year below your DS but also non-verbal, not yet potty trained and awaiting an ASD assessment.

I started the EHCP process earlier this year and it’s been extremely difficult and has drained all my time and money. If I’m not doing something related to the EHCP, then I’m thinking about it. Endless time wasted chasing the council, going round in circles on the phone, emails being ignored. Just so your child gets the basic right to an education.

Fighting for endless referrals and then sitting on endless waiting lists. And the immense worry for your child’s future. It’s so draining.

I work part-time but my job is not a high pressure one and so I can’t imagine the juggle you have. But I understand the worry as my DD will most likely also end up in mainstream next year as well.

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 14:11

Sdpbody · 13/06/2024 14:05

Realistically, if your youngest does end up at a mainstream school, you will be called frequently to come and get him. What are your long term plans for managing this.

I understand that this is shit, but you have to think in the long term.

Why do you think we’re going to tribunal?

It won’t be right for him and dreadfully unfair on him and other children in his class.

And Because we can’t manage this. I will have to quit work. I know people that this has happened to.

very helpful to me to reiterate this though. Perhaps you now understand why I can’t sleep for the worry of it

OP posts:
Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 14:13

Ponche · 13/06/2024 14:11

I don’t have any advice re your work situation, but just wanted to say I understand how stressful, worrying and all-consuming it can be raising a child with additional needs and then managing the EHCP process on top of that as well. My DD is a year below your DS but also non-verbal, not yet potty trained and awaiting an ASD assessment.

I started the EHCP process earlier this year and it’s been extremely difficult and has drained all my time and money. If I’m not doing something related to the EHCP, then I’m thinking about it. Endless time wasted chasing the council, going round in circles on the phone, emails being ignored. Just so your child gets the basic right to an education.

Fighting for endless referrals and then sitting on endless waiting lists. And the immense worry for your child’s future. It’s so draining.

I work part-time but my job is not a high pressure one and so I can’t imagine the juggle you have. But I understand the worry as my DD will most likely also end up in mainstream next year as well.

Exactly this. Awful isn’t it.

We started the process early too and they’ve delayed, lied, ignored us.

It should be a national scandal but unless people have children with disabilities and SEN they don’t care in the slightest

OP posts:
caringcarer · 13/06/2024 14:19

Q124 · 13/06/2024 10:51

I agree with this. Is there anything you can change long term? Being off work for a while and not changing anything won't help as you'll just go back to the same thing.

I agree. Your DH will have to help you by taking on more mental load. You could ask GP for a sick note for stress for a month but as others have stated having a child with SN is stressful and believe me that stress does not go away even if they go to a special school as my foster son did. Could you change jobs to something needing less energy/concentration or go part time maybe 30 hours a week? That would give you a bit of breathing space. Your MH is important. Could your DH take on a few more hours each week so you could cut back your hours for a year?

TiffanyBucksFizzRainbowBright · 13/06/2024 14:19

Slightly off topic but in response to this comment - please don't get anyone to fake thyroid problems. I had a thyroid storm and am still recovering years later, going from normal life to hell in one split second. I'm currently on a new drug trial. It's ruined and changed my whole life. I'm absolutely shell shocked the insinuation that a doctor would do this and use thyroid problems as an excuse. It goes no way to help those genuinely struggling and alleviate public perception or understanding of thyroid disease. Of which any good endocrinologist will tell you research is limited and the experts are learning every day especially when it's auto immune related thyroid issues. That one tiny butterfly gland affects every system in your body and it's not a simple case of remove and replace with drugs...'thyroid problems' should never be minimalised. OP I would advise speaking opening to your doctor regarding your concerns. Also if you have a union speak to them. I get what you are saying but your mental health and wellbeing is worth more. Any employer worth your time, should recognise that.

CassandraWebb · 13/06/2024 14:19

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 14:11

Why do you think we’re going to tribunal?

It won’t be right for him and dreadfully unfair on him and other children in his class.

And Because we can’t manage this. I will have to quit work. I know people that this has happened to.

very helpful to me to reiterate this though. Perhaps you now understand why I can’t sleep for the worry of it

It must be utterly exhausting, genuinely, I really feel for you. I think you almost certainly need time off to process this or it will just catch up with you later. (I've been there, huge stress and I just kept working through it)

TiffanyBucksFizzRainbowBright · 13/06/2024 14:20

TiffanyBucksFizzRainbowBright · 13/06/2024 14:19

Slightly off topic but in response to this comment - please don't get anyone to fake thyroid problems. I had a thyroid storm and am still recovering years later, going from normal life to hell in one split second. I'm currently on a new drug trial. It's ruined and changed my whole life. I'm absolutely shell shocked the insinuation that a doctor would do this and use thyroid problems as an excuse. It goes no way to help those genuinely struggling and alleviate public perception or understanding of thyroid disease. Of which any good endocrinologist will tell you research is limited and the experts are learning every day especially when it's auto immune related thyroid issues. That one tiny butterfly gland affects every system in your body and it's not a simple case of remove and replace with drugs...'thyroid problems' should never be minimalised. OP I would advise speaking opening to your doctor regarding your concerns. Also if you have a union speak to them. I get what you are saying but your mental health and wellbeing is worth more. Any employer worth your time, should recognise that.

Re DollyPartonsBeard comment. I'm useless at working out how to reply to said comment sorry!

EilonwyWithRedGoldHair · 13/06/2024 14:22

Piddypigeon · 13/06/2024 10:10

I went actually with similar issues to the GP a few times when things got too much and was refused a sick note. I was advised to leave employment instead. I think this was really shitty but I would be surprised if you could get signed off for the reason you describe on any case. I was offered counselling to manage stress (but I couldn't attend due to lack of childcare - oh the irony).

I had five weeks off in 2022 for stress related to DS who has since been diagnosed with ASD.

Had no issues being signed off - though it might have helped that it was my line manager who suggested that I might be better off not being in work for a bit as there was also a lot going on in work that was not helping.

WonderingAboutBabies · 13/06/2024 14:27

Ah OP I wish I could reach through my computer and give you a hug. You sound so stressed. Please ignore the awful posters - stress is one of the biggest factors to many health conditions later in life. It is so important for yourself and your family to manage it now before it spirals out of control. This is exactly what your sick leave is for. Your workplace (ideally) will support you with this.

What I would say though is, don't lie. Be completely upfront with your manager/HR and explain your situation. Go to your GP as well and explain it all too, and outline that you're getting stress headaches/migraines on top. They should be able to provide you with a sick note. Take this to your manager/HR and let that be the end of it. Take the 6 months without guilt. Focus on both of your kids, yourself, and your family. Take some time to sort out everything you need to, but also to find time to yourself to relax and come up with strategies to avoid this happening again.

I noticed some other posters asking about benefits and you mentioned DLA - but you didn't mention Child Benefit and Carer's Allowance. You are entitled to both - so make sure you apply. It'd give you a bit of breathing room.

SuseB · 13/06/2024 14:30

I just wanted to mention, as someone who's DH works in an engineering firm with supposedly no flex (as in, they don't advertise it!), that as a parent he is entitled to ask for flexible working arrangements to support you and your family, and they have to at least consider it. If he has a good relationship with his work and they want to hang on to him, he may well be able to negotiate some flexibility. It makes me mad that the majority of this burden tends to fall on women - more men need to ask for and successfully manage flexibility to support family life. In our case my DH went to compressed hours over 4 days, saving a day's childcare for no loss in salary. It's had no impact on his career. He's also at times taken unpaid parental leave in blocks of a week in addition to his holiday entitlement each year (obvs there's a financial cost, but it was worth it for us) and his work are understanding/flexible when he has to take time off for the children's appointments - his manager knows that we both work and we try to manage the impact on our respective employers fairly. Has he actually talked about it to his work at all, or is he assuming there will be no flex possible? In my experience many men do this and it is worth them speaking up.

CertainAppealToIt · 13/06/2024 14:31

Again, fuck off telling people to fake migraine and in this case, cluster headache. Cluster headache is known as the suicide headache for a reason (ask me how I know!). Lying minimises the experiences of those of with these conditions and makes it so much harder for us to be taken seriously. STOP IT!

Again, I've not mentioned migraines @PeonySeasons . And yes, I'm well aware of CH being called Suicide Headaches and I know more about severe CH's than most...maybe you could guess how I know.

Ime there's been no issue with being 'taken seriously' over a severe headache disorder. Certainly much less difficult than being taken seriously over stress disorders, as demonstrated by many posters pretty much telling the op to suck it up.

If you want your own thread about the miseries of headache disorders, go create one.

marciaa · 13/06/2024 14:31

What about "exhaustion" That's what was on my sick note when I had to be off with grief/stress

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