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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Need to go off work with stress - but don’t want it marked as stress

417 replies

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 09:56

Im sure this will set people off but I want to know if there’s a way of “faking” something that a doctor will sign me off for that isn’t stress.

I work in the civil service and I know people that have been signed off with stress thatve had their cards marked forever and later managed out of the business - obviously not for the stress reason though.

Im really struggling with everything at home at the moment and work is the only thing I can see that can give right now.

My 4 year son recently got an echp agreed but they’ve refused to name a specialist setting - they’re saying a non verbal, not potty trained child can cope in mainstream. It’s ridiculous - all the professionals agree except the local authority. So we’re taking them to tribunal - hopefully should be fast tracked as he’s due to start school in September.

I have an older child who has coped with everything really well but is acting out at the moment as me and his dad have been so occupied with sorting our other child and the EHCP.

I have an unwell parent who I’ve had to run to the hospital a lot.

I work 4 days a week in a busy managerial role in the civil service and I just can’t cope. I’m behind on things and I’m sure I’m going to drop a massive ball soon and really bugger something up.

I can’t sleep for the worry of it all.

Please help. I know people will say I should be signed off with stress but I’ve seen what happens to people that have been.

also - I don’t know how it works. Will they ring me repeatedly trying to get me back into work asap? I think that will stress me out even more ☹️

OP posts:
Howbizarre22 · 13/06/2024 12:50

Are you sure that their discrimination was against long term sick with stress per se or just with long term sick in general? Disgusting that they discriminate- we are human beings.

I agree with a pp- think I’d be honest about it being stress but attribute it to current one off situation so they are less judgmental. Shame you’d have to do this though and they can’t just improve their attitude

MummyJ36 · 13/06/2024 12:50

Ah OP this sounds like such a hard time. Do you have a good relationship with your manager? I’d sit down and think about what you really need. Is it a month off or a temporary reduction in hours, or more support from your manager? I’d be really honest if I were you, I honestly don’t think taking time off for your mental health is frowned upon in a way it used to be even 10 years.

Id also think about how you frame where your stress is coming from, if any of it is stemming from your work then a good manager will address this. If it is all home based then make it clear that you need period of leave for your mental health. Mental health is just as important as physical health.

In the longer term I would sit down and think about how you can ease the mental load for yourself, this is really important for your wellbeing and it may include getting your husband on board to understand why this is so difficult for you. But in the short term, please consider being honest with your manager and seeing if you can come to some kind of short term agreement to give you a mental break.

ShyMaryEllen · 13/06/2024 12:50

PeonySeasons · 13/06/2024 12:47

Nor does she need to. Her responsibilities are to herself and her children. Not her colleagues.

If a shit manager has dumped work on you, that's the fault of the shit manager, not the person off sick.

Not really. In some workplaces there is no alternative. If there is no budget to employ cover, and the person off sick won't reduce their hours, what would you do as a manager?

I agree that the system is wrong though, which is what I tried to address in my post with practical suggestions that you have ignored.

TinyYellow · 13/06/2024 12:52

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 11:35

I can’t believe there’s people telling me I need to leave my job.

As if defaulting on the mortgage would make my stress any easier to manage!

Because wanting to lie about sickness so you can be off work on full pay is unacceptable. There’s nothing you could lie about that wouldn’t be unfair on genuine sufferers and if your stress is as real as you say then it’s a valid reason to be off. If it’s not a valid reason to be off, then don’t take time off. Either way, don’t lie.

PeonySeasons · 13/06/2024 12:53

ShyMaryEllen · 13/06/2024 12:50

Not really. In some workplaces there is no alternative. If there is no budget to employ cover, and the person off sick won't reduce their hours, what would you do as a manager?

I agree that the system is wrong though, which is what I tried to address in my post with practical suggestions that you have ignored.

As a manager, you either take the wok on yourself or decide what needs to give in order to be manageable.

If you can't hire in agency, you reduce the work outputs.

If that has consequences, it's a business issue for the higher ups as well because it's demonstrating just how overworked / poorly treated / understaffed the team are if there is no capacity to soak up tasks at a manageable level even on a short term basis.

Iwouldratherbemuckingout · 13/06/2024 12:54

My GP signed me off with exhaustion rather than stress, when I didn't want stress on the certificate

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 12:54

TinyYellow · 13/06/2024 12:52

Because wanting to lie about sickness so you can be off work on full pay is unacceptable. There’s nothing you could lie about that wouldn’t be unfair on genuine sufferers and if your stress is as real as you say then it’s a valid reason to be off. If it’s not a valid reason to be off, then don’t take time off. Either way, don’t lie.

Of course stress is valid.

Im just concerned that many people have no understanding of stress and anxiety and that it will impact my career prospects.

Id be off on full pay either way.

but yes I’ve taken the point from others that it’s best to be upfront about my current situation rather than lie and say I’ve hurt my back or similar.

OP posts:
EatTheGnome · 13/06/2024 12:55

If you check the relevant policies, you don't have to tell your manger what you are off sick for, you can just tell hr.

Superscientist · 13/06/2024 13:02

Piddypigeon · 13/06/2024 12:46

That's great for you but when you combine working with caring, the you often don't have this 1h. I was refused by the counselling service when I was referred as I struggled with work and care (and no childcare and support network) and didn't have anyone to look after my child in order to speak to someone. I would image it is similar if OP with a busy working schedule.

Yes I am lucky that I have a lunch break and wfh most of the week so my HV came to my house to do the counselling every Friday lunchtime so that she could work it around my work commitments.

I'm not lucky in the sense that I should have been having this through the cmht as I qualified for a cpn when I moved house in August 2022. Him coming every 2 weeks turned into him coming once and nearly 2years on I haven't seen himself a second time. I have heard he went on sick due to stress and then left.

I'm on the severe mental illness register and I now have a meeting with a nurse with my GP surgery every 3 months. Again sacrificing lunch and /or working in the evenings once my daughter is in bed or working over the weekend which often happens anyway.

My point was just because a situation can't be changed doesn't mean there isn't anything that can be done to change the impact of the situation on the person. I have over the years had to prioritise my mental health having had many mental health breakdowns. At one point I was working 26/28 days a month averaging 70+h a week but still had to find the time for monthly counselling and weekly disability mentoring. That helps made the difference between being able to keep waking up and getting through the week and not surviving at all.

FunZebra · 13/06/2024 13:04

My 4 year old Autistic non-verbal, non-potty trained nephew is doing amazingly well in mainstream school (2.5 hours a day with 1-1 support)

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 13:06

FunZebra · 13/06/2024 13:04

My 4 year old Autistic non-verbal, non-potty trained nephew is doing amazingly well in mainstream school (2.5 hours a day with 1-1 support)

I’m glad to hear that but how exactly am I meant to work if my child is only at school 2.5 hours per day?

OP posts:
CassandraWebb · 13/06/2024 13:08

PeonySeasons · 13/06/2024 10:58

Fuck me, take the time off AND make changes - people are right that something needs to change, but why can't she take a couple of months off sick to out things in place?

OP - what can be changed in time off? Practically speaking - older child can have more quality time with you and hopefully improve the acting out.

Parent might be unwell, but they may need to start using hospital transport for appointments for the longer term as you can't do it all.

Younger child gets started in any school - even with the tribunal coming up, you can work with whatever school they go to initially.

You get some sleep. Sleep is essential for physical and mental health.

Get signed off, work is off your mind, you can concentrate on other things that need fixing.

I agree with this, take some time, but use that time to make a plan. Because this isn't a short term situation and it sounds like you need to really think about how to get life more manageable long term

That may well mean going part time because that's better than being off sick so much you lose your job

And your employer will want to hear you are being proactive to improve things.

It will hopefully be easier to chart a way through if you take a bit of time to just stop.

But then you do need to work out a new balance, even if it means money is very tight for a while

CertainAppealToIt · 13/06/2024 13:10

I would also recommend being honest op. I think the CS are more likely to just want to manage out anyone with high sickness % rather than MH conditions, so you'd likely be in the same boat.

However. If you really, really wanted it to be something physical...headaches. You'd need to go the whole hog though. Call in sick for two days, tell them you have the most awful headache. Go back for two days. Call in sick again with the same. Go see a GP, describe all the symptoms of cluster headaches you've experienced over a couple of weeks (without appearing to know what CH are) but add in that you've been so worried about it you've not been sleeping, are exhausted, now can't concentrate, you're worried about making mistakes in work and having to drive and you're experiencing anxiety. The liklihood is that GP will sign you off for a couple of weeks (push for a month) with primary cause of headache...and will give you meds, possibly order other tests. Don't take them, see the GP again after a few weeks, say they stopped temporarily but are now back with a vengeance. Rinse and repeat as long as you can.

Cluster headaches are literally that...you can get a cluster of them for x weeks or months then they just stop. Sometimes for years or forever. Very hard to prove, diagnose and treat. It's not uncommon to still be searching for a medication or treatment that works when the cluster ends after X months and you no longer need the treatment.

Do research into CH and if you feel the need, I'd do that. But you need to be able to stone cold lie about it which not everyone is capable of.

**Edited to add my sympathy and best wishes op. Ignore the righteous, unempathetic holier than thou posters. What you're experiencing is stress and burnout, it's real and fucking miserable and sometimes all you need is time to breathe. And yes, work is the best thing to give if you have full sick pay.

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 13:15

CertainAppealToIt · 13/06/2024 13:10

I would also recommend being honest op. I think the CS are more likely to just want to manage out anyone with high sickness % rather than MH conditions, so you'd likely be in the same boat.

However. If you really, really wanted it to be something physical...headaches. You'd need to go the whole hog though. Call in sick for two days, tell them you have the most awful headache. Go back for two days. Call in sick again with the same. Go see a GP, describe all the symptoms of cluster headaches you've experienced over a couple of weeks (without appearing to know what CH are) but add in that you've been so worried about it you've not been sleeping, are exhausted, now can't concentrate, you're worried about making mistakes in work and having to drive and you're experiencing anxiety. The liklihood is that GP will sign you off for a couple of weeks (push for a month) with primary cause of headache...and will give you meds, possibly order other tests. Don't take them, see the GP again after a few weeks, say they stopped temporarily but are now back with a vengeance. Rinse and repeat as long as you can.

Cluster headaches are literally that...you can get a cluster of them for x weeks or months then they just stop. Sometimes for years or forever. Very hard to prove, diagnose and treat. It's not uncommon to still be searching for a medication or treatment that works when the cluster ends after X months and you no longer need the treatment.

Do research into CH and if you feel the need, I'd do that. But you need to be able to stone cold lie about it which not everyone is capable of.

**Edited to add my sympathy and best wishes op. Ignore the righteous, unempathetic holier than thou posters. What you're experiencing is stress and burnout, it's real and fucking miserable and sometimes all you need is time to breathe. And yes, work is the best thing to give if you have full sick pay.

Edited

Thank you for this.

I think that after considering everything I need to be honest with work and perhaps I could reduce my workload a bit or take away a few of my direct reports.

Im a project manager and have way too many on right now.

And in reality you’re right - I won’t be able to lie about this.

OP posts:
Jazzjazzyjulez · 13/06/2024 13:16

CertainAppealToIt · 13/06/2024 13:10

I would also recommend being honest op. I think the CS are more likely to just want to manage out anyone with high sickness % rather than MH conditions, so you'd likely be in the same boat.

However. If you really, really wanted it to be something physical...headaches. You'd need to go the whole hog though. Call in sick for two days, tell them you have the most awful headache. Go back for two days. Call in sick again with the same. Go see a GP, describe all the symptoms of cluster headaches you've experienced over a couple of weeks (without appearing to know what CH are) but add in that you've been so worried about it you've not been sleeping, are exhausted, now can't concentrate, you're worried about making mistakes in work and having to drive and you're experiencing anxiety. The liklihood is that GP will sign you off for a couple of weeks (push for a month) with primary cause of headache...and will give you meds, possibly order other tests. Don't take them, see the GP again after a few weeks, say they stopped temporarily but are now back with a vengeance. Rinse and repeat as long as you can.

Cluster headaches are literally that...you can get a cluster of them for x weeks or months then they just stop. Sometimes for years or forever. Very hard to prove, diagnose and treat. It's not uncommon to still be searching for a medication or treatment that works when the cluster ends after X months and you no longer need the treatment.

Do research into CH and if you feel the need, I'd do that. But you need to be able to stone cold lie about it which not everyone is capable of.

**Edited to add my sympathy and best wishes op. Ignore the righteous, unempathetic holier than thou posters. What you're experiencing is stress and burnout, it's real and fucking miserable and sometimes all you need is time to breathe. And yes, work is the best thing to give if you have full sick pay.

Edited

Big shout out to all us migraines sufferers out there that our symptoms are so easily faked. No wonder no one takes the situation seriously.

Also, if you are off for 6 months (conveniently coming back before the half pay starts as is always the case) - people know you have said stress. It doesn't matter what you put down, everyone always knows or just assumes. Unless there was some tragic accident etc.

Also, lying equals bad karma.....

Invisimamma · 13/06/2024 13:17

Take the time off op. Ask the doctor to write 'family stress' not 'work related stress.' your card shouldn't be marked for this, it's usually the people who can't cope with workplace demands that it adversely affects. Paid sick leave is one of your benefits, use it!

People are being unduly harsh here, you're having a really hard time. It's okay to take some time out and focus on yourself and your family for a little while.

Do a few nice things for yourself and take your eldest out of school for a few days while your youngest is cared for and do some special things with them. Put some things in place for your parents, use the time to get on top of your house, long walks, whatever it is that you need to do. It will make the world of difference.

This is temporary. It will get better.

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 13:18

Jazzjazzyjulez · 13/06/2024 13:16

Big shout out to all us migraines sufferers out there that our symptoms are so easily faked. No wonder no one takes the situation seriously.

Also, if you are off for 6 months (conveniently coming back before the half pay starts as is always the case) - people know you have said stress. It doesn't matter what you put down, everyone always knows or just assumes. Unless there was some tragic accident etc.

Also, lying equals bad karma.....

Actually I have had some serious headaches recently.

Likely from stress.

So please go away. Start your own bloody thread about all your migraines and how everyone is co-opting them

OP posts:
Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 13:19

Invisimamma · 13/06/2024 13:17

Take the time off op. Ask the doctor to write 'family stress' not 'work related stress.' your card shouldn't be marked for this, it's usually the people who can't cope with workplace demands that it adversely affects. Paid sick leave is one of your benefits, use it!

People are being unduly harsh here, you're having a really hard time. It's okay to take some time out and focus on yourself and your family for a little while.

Do a few nice things for yourself and take your eldest out of school for a few days while your youngest is cared for and do some special things with them. Put some things in place for your parents, use the time to get on top of your house, long walks, whatever it is that you need to do. It will make the world of difference.

This is temporary. It will get better.

Thank you. This is so kind.

Its made me teary that some people are so empathetic 🥹

OP posts:
nokidshere · 13/06/2024 13:21

I don't know what the problem is? You are stressed, understandably in your situation, you need time off, you get paid. All this angst about the wording on the sick note just adds to your stress. Get the sick note and take the time.

noctilucentcloud · 13/06/2024 13:21

CertainAppealToIt · 13/06/2024 13:10

I would also recommend being honest op. I think the CS are more likely to just want to manage out anyone with high sickness % rather than MH conditions, so you'd likely be in the same boat.

However. If you really, really wanted it to be something physical...headaches. You'd need to go the whole hog though. Call in sick for two days, tell them you have the most awful headache. Go back for two days. Call in sick again with the same. Go see a GP, describe all the symptoms of cluster headaches you've experienced over a couple of weeks (without appearing to know what CH are) but add in that you've been so worried about it you've not been sleeping, are exhausted, now can't concentrate, you're worried about making mistakes in work and having to drive and you're experiencing anxiety. The liklihood is that GP will sign you off for a couple of weeks (push for a month) with primary cause of headache...and will give you meds, possibly order other tests. Don't take them, see the GP again after a few weeks, say they stopped temporarily but are now back with a vengeance. Rinse and repeat as long as you can.

Cluster headaches are literally that...you can get a cluster of them for x weeks or months then they just stop. Sometimes for years or forever. Very hard to prove, diagnose and treat. It's not uncommon to still be searching for a medication or treatment that works when the cluster ends after X months and you no longer need the treatment.

Do research into CH and if you feel the need, I'd do that. But you need to be able to stone cold lie about it which not everyone is capable of.

**Edited to add my sympathy and best wishes op. Ignore the righteous, unempathetic holier than thou posters. What you're experiencing is stress and burnout, it's real and fucking miserable and sometimes all you need is time to breathe. And yes, work is the best thing to give if you have full sick pay.

Edited

That's an awful idea. You're taking up NHS time that's not needed, even if you don't turn up for tests that is a wasted appointment. All that does is make waiting lists longer and waste money.

OP I think being honest is the way to go, if you are not honest with your GP (and work) then things can't improve.

CertainAppealToIt · 13/06/2024 13:25

Big shout out to all us migraines sufferers out there that our symptoms are so easily faked. No wonder no one takes the situation seriously

Not sure why you've quoted my post in this @Jazzjazzyjulez, I made no mention of migraines, only Cluster headaches. Which I would have imagined you'd be aware is a totally different headache disorder.

And yes, any internal medical problem - especially pain - is very easy to fake (to the point of invasive tests or treatments anyway). Is that news to you?

Bananafree · 13/06/2024 13:27

OP, glad you’ve decided to be honest and I hope you get all the time off that you need and I can see you’ve tried to be considerate.

to the posters saying other people’s workload isn’t OP’s concern you’re part of the problem. There is a woman in my team who has been off sick 3-6 months every single year since I’ve been in this role and she was even promoted last year and lasted about 4 months before she went off sick again .

It does impact the team, she shouldn’t have went for the promotion last year IMO because now her absence affects the team even more as people at her grade do a lot more work so she’s leaving a massive gap.

That’s not to say people shouldn't get signed off with stress or shouldn’t ever go for promotion opportunities if they’ve been signed off, because they should if that’s what’s needed. But it’s also common decency to stop and consider others too while you’re making your decision while also prioritising yourself of course.

Mummaluma · 13/06/2024 13:28

Talk to your GP. Mine was happy to discuss wording once he was satisfied I was genuinely unwell.

Dartwarbler · 13/06/2024 13:29

I’ve managed teams for a long time with all sorts of long term sickness

first thing is you will need to see a GP anyway. The GP is likely to only sign you off for 2 weeks at a time, and will only do this if they feel it is a legitimate case of stress symptoms or whatever medical condition they think it is likely to be. Almost certainly they will then talk to you about getting help for your mental well-being- either a course of antidepressants, getting you on list for counselling , or regular exercise in terms of walking . They’ll talk to you about reasons for the stress, as in itself it’s not an illness as such, but a symptom, and what you can do to get support you need. You need to be up front and truthful . The bottom line is if youfeel you can’t cope you need to address anyway, otherwise you’ll end up dropping out of working entirely

you also need to know that general medical guidance has long been the sooner people go back into the normal daily routines like work, the better. Signing someone off for 6 months increases the likelihood of them never being able to deal with their previous life. It is all about how NHS support you in developing mental resilience

The Gp may put initial 2 weeks down to something else if you express concerns. But they probably won’t. Sick notes (or wellness notes as they’re now referred to) are legal documents - so whatever is diagnosis will normally go down

you submit this to work. BUT the cause of your illness is medically confidential so would normally not be sent to your manager unless small company. More likely to HR or a subcontracted out service. No one will do anything with it other than set up claim for sick leave at that stage - UNLESS you have a history of absenteeism. Or unless it specifically puts down a work related cause.

once you then go back to GP for an extension, your company may well ask you to talk to an occupational health person or a GP or their choosing to do an independent assessment of your health and reason for absence. The longer you are signed off (in normally 2 week extensions) the more likely that will become. You I’ll be asked if you are willing to have the assessment shared with HR and your line manager. HR and your line manager can ask spepcifc question for the assessor to ask you.

normally, even where stress or mental health issues are involved, people agree that this info can be shared to a certain degree with management. If for instance, stress is not caused by work but another factor - management will be told it is not work related stress but not the cause of the stress typically.

The assessment will also be looking carefully at how you are “helping yourself”: are you in queue for therapy (can you go private maybe?), are you taking meds, are you finding solutions to ease your stress like getting home help etc etc.

they’ll also be talking to you about reasonable adjustments. In most reputable companies they’ll want to try to get you back asap but with reduced hours over phased return.

if work is a cause of stress, or contributing factor, then HSE law means company must do risk assessment. That is why they want to know. If they don’t , and they don’t do risk assessment it can all get very messy legally for both of you.

most companies do not look kindly on people who do not agree to a independent assessment when they’re claiming sock leave pay. It send the spidery senses into full alert as why would you not cooperate if a legitimate illness? Similarly not giving consent to share the basic medical diagnosis with HR tends to be a bit frowned on…again given it’s not going to be passed on or kept why the concerns?

being signed off work for 6 months because that’s how long your sick pay lasts, is not a solution, OP. No GP is going to sign you off for that in one, two or even 3 hits. No company is going to agree to paying that without wanting to do their own assessment because of what it costs them. And, most importantly it will NOT solve your issues. People being signed off for 6months, or even a full month in one hit, is usually reserved for where there is a known physical condition that has a known recovery time. As stress is a symptom of something else, that’s going to make it even more difficult to predict, it will entirely depend on causes, treatments and circumstances.

You have specific issue that are causing you stress. You are overloaded, and you MUST to reduce your load. You need to strictly figure out what you personally cannot delegate, and then delegate very thing else or just stop it. You can do this for 1 month and see how you get on. I think seeing GP and talking through how you feel and maybe be signed off for 2 weeks may just be able to get you some respite mentally, and fix the underlying issues. But there aren’t magic fairies that’ll fix this…and stopping work on extended sick leave won’t fix it either. You could make your overall mental health worse in fact.

You have to do something to change what you can control.

Invisimamma · 13/06/2024 13:32

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 13:19

Thank you. This is so kind.

Its made me teary that some people are so empathetic 🥹

I had a really hard year last year, I had to take some time out and had 3 months off sick, my partner also had 5 months while his parent was dying.

If it wasn't for a few amazing people lifting me up and checking-in on me through that time I wouldn't have got through it. The break and pressing the reset button was vital.

I don't know if it's true but there's a saying about mummy polar bears eating first and leaving the scraps for the babies, because the little polar bears won't survive if their mum isn't fit and able to hunt and caren for them 🥹. There's something in that.

I've made a few changes and in a better place. Things are not perfect, but I'm better equipped to deal with life now. Please go to the doctor and get that sick line before you burn out entirely.