Really dislike 16-year-old niece: don't want to have her to stay

[valsays]

My sister was divorced several years ago and is sole parent to my niece who's almost 16. Her ex lives abroad and sees his DD rarely. I used to get on really well with DN and spent quite a lot of time with her until she reached the age of around 13, at which point she started to become obnoxious. I ignored the snide remarks and lack of consideration or gratitude for as long as I could, but last year things reached a head.

She and a friend of hers came to stay with me for 4 nights, as they have a couple of times a year for some years. I live in London and when she stays I do things with them that they wouldn't be able to do where they live. Last year we went down the Thames to Hampton Court on a boat, we shopped at Camden Market and Spitalfields and Hoxton, we went to Tate Modern and the Globe theatre, we saw a couple of shows and a couple of films. I pay for everything, obviously. DN's friend was lovely. DN was a complete nightmare. Didn't want to go out and do anything but was angling to go clubbing and angry with me for saying no. She was 14! Didn't want to go anywhere I suggested, couldn't suggest anything she'd like to do. One day we had a quiet day locally, because she was so adamant about not going out, and she complained we didn't do anything. I tried talking to her to find out what was going on, but she told me to eff off and then had a furious rant at me. She was really trying to be hurtful. I soaked it up and tried to comfort her friend, who found the situation difficult, but it really spoiled the last couple of days of their visit and she had another major outburst in the car when I took them home.

Last Christmas I bought her something that I'm sure she'd said she wanted. Something that cost £300. I was there when she opened it, with my DM and DS and other family members around. DN opened her present, pulled a face and then threw it at me and said 'You're as shit at buying presents as everything else' and walked out and slammed the door on us. My DM was shocked. My DS went after DN and told her off and there was a big row that ruined the day. DN hasn't spoken to me or contacted me since then. I've messaged her occasionally and she's just ignored me.

My DS knows what DN is like, but is still anticipating that this August I'll have her and the friend to stay as usual. As the time approaches I feel less and less like doing it. Their visits cost me over £1k, which I don't begrudge. But I'm not going to spend that sort of money and also soak up the abuse.

I've contacted my DS to say I'm not sure I want to continue the tradition. My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens. She's actually accused me of being unreasonable for not carrying on as usual. AIBU?

Absolutely no way would I send her that message!

This would be a hard no from me - even if there was an apology offered from DN right now, it would be too little, too late for this year. Perhaps with a sustained display of better behavior over the next twelve months you could consider extending an invite next year but DN needs to learn the life lesson here.

I’d say you have a d sis problem who should be sorting this behaviour out not minimising and excusing it!

Tbh, at 16 she is old enough to go on holiday on her own with a friend so if your sister is that desperate for a break, she can pay for something like that.

It does sound like your niece is going through something, but many, many teenagers are, often worse scenarios too and they manage not to behave like that.

I don't think messaging asking why she was so angry with you is the right approach, she will just be defensive and/or ignore. You could message and say last trip/Christmas really hurt you and consequently you won't be hosting this year, that way at least you have made here aware of the impact of her behaviour at an emotional level.

What does your DM think?

Let me guess - your niece took her Christmas presents home with her?

What would have happened if your sister had taken her home on Christmas Day, dumped her there and gone back to have dinner with her mum and you?

She is a brat and your sister is clearly a shit parent

My DS doesn't find any of this acceptable and the behaviour isn't condoned in any way. There are sanctions for my niece.

YANBU. I think dealing with the behaviour could be "part of dealing with teens" if you're a parent (and have no choice) but not if you're anyone else, even an Aunt. And no teen should just get the horrible behaviour rewarded with no consequences. Not getting the trip to London this year is a great natural consequence of her behaviour and a good boundary for you.

Tbh, does DN actually want to come and stay again? It sounds like it might be better to stay at your sister's or have DN (with no friend) come and stay but not do all the trips and treats. Then give your Sis the £1k you would have spent so she can have a lovely relaxed holiday!

Tell dsis she wants to go clubbing and you can't be responsible for that until she is 18 so you think it best you have a break until then. Your dsis probably needs a break from her DD so it a pity. She might grow up before she is 18.

Ask your sister to come to London for a few days without her daughter. It would be good for her to get away from her.

What you have to watch out for is your niece going to stay with your mum - that's the last thing you mum needs.

In this situation I'd be telling the DN directly that this trip is off this year due to her behaviour both last summer and at Christmas unless she apologises properly and agrees it won't happen again.

If she's grown up at all in this time, she'll consider it. If she's still a brat she won't do it and that is the end of it. No emotional blackmail from DN or DS should get past this.

I have never experienced this kind of behaviour with my teens and believe me, they’ve had their moments. If your niece believes she can just arrive again PLUS a friend, she will continue with the behaviour, why would she not, she gets away with it. She needs to see that there are consequences. I think you are a lovely aunt and incredibly patient but you are not your niece’s punchbag. Tell her to go to Alton Towers and you take your £1000 and have a nice weekend away!!

Whatever the parenting/mother-daughter situation is going on, it is impacting you negatively, and you're right - you have no influence over the situation.

It's important for you to step away until your sister sorts it out with her daughter. You can't fix this, so keep your boundaries firm here.

Your sister may not be the “problem” but she’s equally not finding a solution… at least not quickly anyway! But to be honest this behaviour doesn’t sprout overnight so no, she might not be able to handle or control it now but your sister has allowed it to escalate to a quite horrifying scale.

Do they both need therapy? probably.

Is the fact her dad left a get of jail free card to treat people this poorly? No.

Will throwing another grand at your niece in London help anything? No.

Will any of you enjoy it? No.

Make a stand and start a fresh because whatever trauma you think she has she can’t just weaponise it in the real world and treat people this way. If you feel you have to support your sister by paying for counselling if you want instead, it’s going to be much better money and time spent than dragging her shopping in Spitalfields.

I assume the Christmas gift was taken away and returned to the shop for a start?

What other consequences did she face?

Nah. Aunts shouldn't have to deal with that shit.

YANBU to say no as PP suggest. But I think it might need a bit more consideration. If she is that difficult all the time I suspect DSis is going through a really tough time and could do with some support. You don't have to host her kid, but maybe try to talk to her about it? Make her see its not normal but don't blame her for it either, she may he already be at her wits end and tries to convince herself its normal because she can't cope with the fact her DD has a serious behaviour issue. Also if you have direct contact with DN I think you should tell her why you won't be hosting this year and that you won't tolerate the ungrateful attitude, but if she works on it you'll be happy to try spending time again in the future.

There has so be some sort of repercussion for her behaviour.

Give it a break for a few years and maybe start the tradition again when she's over this phase.

TBH - if we expereinced anyhting like you have - that would put a stop to us and them visisitng the other - no ifs, no buts

YANBU except that people do change very quickly at this age. I might have a phone chat with DN and see if she's likely to be a bit nicer this year?

OP, don't you dare having your niece to stay in the circustances you describe. Your DSis is taking you for a mug: forking out thousands of pounds (it really is uncommonly generous of you to also foot the bill for the friend) and being rewarded with abuse? No thanks.

It's time to spell it out to your DSis: no more 'I'm not sure I want to continue the tradition', spell it out clearly that you're not having spoiled brat niece to stay, and the reason why is because of her appalling rudeness. This is by no means normal teenage behaviour, and your sister putting her head under the sand and downplaying the situation is doing your niece no favours in the long term.

What was the consequence of her treating you so rudely?

has your niece had any support to deal with what she may be feeling about her father abandoning her.

i have read all your posts, and yes the behaviour is unacceptable, but she sounds like a very hurt and very unhappy child, and your sister may not be able to fix it. Has your DSis got the resources to get her some counselling and support. And maybe for herself too to assert some consistent boundaries and deal with how this must make her feel?

While I agree teens can be difficult, if my child had behaved like that towards a family member, she'd have faced serious and long lasting consequences. You absolutely have to stand your ground here. I would also say no and never host her again. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree it seems. Your sister has got a fucking nerve even asking.

Please say no. Your niece will be much worse off if you say yes. She needs to learn you can't treat people however you want. It sounds like her Mum is not really seeing this for what it is.

Send a non-emotional message saying that while you love her and hope for good things for her, you can't allow yourself to be treated this way and that in life when we are rude and abusive to people they often need to put boundaries and distance in place. As a result the visit this summer won't be going ahead and you hope she can reflect on how she's treated you and maybe learn from this.

Do not normalise this. It isn't normal and it isn't okay.

No way would I have her again with that attitude. I'd text your niece and tell her the reasons. And it's not normal teenage behaviour, far from it.