Really dislike 16-year-old niece: don't want to have her to stay

[valsays]

My sister was divorced several years ago and is sole parent to my niece who's almost 16. Her ex lives abroad and sees his DD rarely. I used to get on really well with DN and spent quite a lot of time with her until she reached the age of around 13, at which point she started to become obnoxious. I ignored the snide remarks and lack of consideration or gratitude for as long as I could, but last year things reached a head.

She and a friend of hers came to stay with me for 4 nights, as they have a couple of times a year for some years. I live in London and when she stays I do things with them that they wouldn't be able to do where they live. Last year we went down the Thames to Hampton Court on a boat, we shopped at Camden Market and Spitalfields and Hoxton, we went to Tate Modern and the Globe theatre, we saw a couple of shows and a couple of films. I pay for everything, obviously. DN's friend was lovely. DN was a complete nightmare. Didn't want to go out and do anything but was angling to go clubbing and angry with me for saying no. She was 14! Didn't want to go anywhere I suggested, couldn't suggest anything she'd like to do. One day we had a quiet day locally, because she was so adamant about not going out, and she complained we didn't do anything. I tried talking to her to find out what was going on, but she told me to eff off and then had a furious rant at me. She was really trying to be hurtful. I soaked it up and tried to comfort her friend, who found the situation difficult, but it really spoiled the last couple of days of their visit and she had another major outburst in the car when I took them home.

Last Christmas I bought her something that I'm sure she'd said she wanted. Something that cost £300. I was there when she opened it, with my DM and DS and other family members around. DN opened her present, pulled a face and then threw it at me and said 'You're as shit at buying presents as everything else' and walked out and slammed the door on us. My DM was shocked. My DS went after DN and told her off and there was a big row that ruined the day. DN hasn't spoken to me or contacted me since then. I've messaged her occasionally and she's just ignored me.

My DS knows what DN is like, but is still anticipating that this August I'll have her and the friend to stay as usual. As the time approaches I feel less and less like doing it. Their visits cost me over £1k, which I don't begrudge. But I'm not going to spend that sort of money and also soak up the abuse.

I've contacted my DS to say I'm not sure I want to continue the tradition. My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens. She's actually accused me of being unreasonable for not carrying on as usual. AIBU?

I am the mother of two teenagers and if they spoke to me or a family member like that I would explode!!!! Your niece sounds like a ungrateful spoilt brat and I wouldn't be hosting her at all!!! Its not normal behaviour and your sister needs to realise that. Hope you are okay x

Tell your DS she can stump up the 1k for it and then you'll be happy to go ahead? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Your sister is totally wrong and I can't believe the reaction to the Christmas present! That's horrific!

My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens.

That's your problem, isn't it? Your sister isn't parenting her kid so now she's a horror and your niece thinks that's acceptable because her mum just lets it slide. Not a chance I would be hosting her and her friend for her to be rude after the last visit, and after her being rude and ungrateful about a present without an apology there's no chance in hell.

She's 16. She's plenty old enough to know when she's been rude and to learn how to apologise. The fact she hasn't bothered (and her mum hasn't made her!) shows no respect for you at all from either of them and I wouldn't let anyone over the age of about 7 who can't show bare minimum respect to me stay in my house, never mind at my expense. Cheeky little witch.

Ps if it's a sudden change in your DN maybe your sister needs to check she doesn't have any abuse etc happening eg is she hanging with older teens? The clubbing expectation rang alarm bells as that's not normal these days

My sister does try to tackle this behaviour and has sanctions in place, but my niece is a very bright and confident girl and just doesn't seem to care. My sister and I were both brought up well and would never have spoken to our parents in the way my DN talks to us.

I get the feeling that my niece thinks I've let her down in some way, but when I tried to raise that with her she just got angry and defensive. I think she's acting out — perhaps something to do with her DF and the divorce (he left DN and DS for a woman who lives on another continent). I could understand her underlying fury at that. What I don't understand is why it's coming in my direction.

If I were to message her and ask her about that, ask her why she's so angry with me and what we can both do about it, is that likely to help? My DS looked at me witheringly when I suggested it. DS has had a very hard time with the fall-out from the divorce and has done all she can to shield DN from the worst of it. She and DN went to see a counsellor when DN first started getting angry with her but the counsellor seemed to this this was a fairly normal stage of development for a girl in my DN's situation and that she'd get through it.

The few days DN spends with me gives my DS a bit of a break, so I do understand why she is reluctant for me to say enough is enough.

"No, she behaved so badly last year that I can't go through that again. And have you forgotten Christmas, when I spent £300 on something she asked for and she threw it at me?"

Not a bloody chance would i be having her to stay! Her mum needs to work on this, i know teens can be a pain but i don't know any who are this rude.

My jaw hit the floor when I read your sister’s expectation.

No one in my family would expect us to host a nephew or niece who behaved like that.

It's up to your sister whether she tolerates this behaviour, or what she does about it. It's entirely reasonable of you to no longer want to spend a lot of effort and money hosting your niece when she's in this obnoxious phase. Your sister can't require you to deal with this shit so she gets a week off. Her child, after all.

With luck, your niece will grow out of whatever the hell this is, apologise profusely, and you'll have a good relationship again, but it might be a longterm thing, and you don't need to martyr yourself in the short term for it.

Her behaviour at Christmas, too, was appalling. What on earth is up with that girl?

I wonder if the 1% will claim neurodivergence/ mental health

Hell no. I've had several teens and been one myself and never experienced behaviour like that, it's beyond "normal" teenage behaviour and your DS is doing neither herself nor her DD any favours by normalising it

I'd back right off, no messages, no gifts and certainly no stay in London and maybe revisit the situation in a year or so to see if DN has learnt to control her behaviour

Sounds like your sister has normalised it, but that she also wants a break.

It would be a firm no from me.

I have a few kids and I’m into my second stint as a mother of a teen. Yes they are messy, moody, cheeky and push boundaries.

WITH ME - they are as kind as can be to anyone else!

This is not ok, I suspect this child is spoilt and entitled and possibly jealous of your life and money.

If you stop now you will be doing her a massive favour. If you don’t stop you’ll let her believe her behaviour was acceptable.

It’s a no from me. It’s also not surprising that her mother says yabu, she’s your nieces mother afterall! And the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree! Is this how your DS treats your own mum?

I think I'd go for this approach. What a shame, I wonder what else is going on for your neice as its not usual behaviour.

Absolutely NO

I wouldn't ever have her visit nor would I be buying any presents for her at all unless you get a sincere apology from your niece for her appalling past behaviours.

Your sister is enabling her dd in behaving so abysmally. She is failing in parenting.

This is absolutely not normal teen behaviour - I've raised two of them and they never behaved at this level of awfulness. Say no and be clear why.

That’s maybe how teens behave at their worst moment with their mum. They should not behave like that around other people. They know better than think they can pull that off. I’d text the niece something along the lines of ‘last year wasn’t enjoyable for anyone. I’m happy to have you if you want to come and have fun with me. Perhaps suggest some things you’d like to do and we can discuss. If I don’t hear back I’ll assume you don’t want to come’.

She’s still a teenager and dealing with lots of emotions and changes. give her the chance to apologise and come up with a way forward but don’t tolerate such rudeness.

I like this approach

Your sister wants a break but the DN clearly doesn't want to be there, so don't host her.

I would say though that this is clearly a very unhappy and angry girl who has been completely failed by one parent and is lashing out at the remaining loving people. A thread full of posters calling a distressed child horrible names is repulsive. Yes, she's rude and saying awful things. But that is a combination is shit parenting and hormones. She can and will be brought around and MN of all places should have some understanding of compassion towards a child.

I hate these threads. Pages of calling children names.

She's plenty old enough to know when she's been rude and to learn how to apologise. The fact she hasn't bothered (and her mum hasn't made her!) shows no respect for you at all from either of them

My DS certainly tried to get DN to apologise at Christmas but what on earth is a parent supposed to do when a 16-year-old digs in their heels? As it was, DN had her Christmas dinner in the kitchen (she refused to join us round the table) and then DS took her home afterwards. My DM wanted them to stay for dinner, otherwise my DS would have taken DN straight home. I don't think my DS is the problem here.

Is the friend still friends with her?

She is a brat and your sister is clearly a shit parent who has spoilt her. No excuses. Cut her off until she can behave!

No way on this planet.

Monstrous child. Oh, and don't leave her anything in your will, OP.

Fucking absolutely not. I have 3 teens myself, and have NEVER come across one that behave like that towards a relative for giving them massively expensive presents! Parents may get a bit of lip during a particularly hormonal episode. Nothing like that that. And certainly to anyone who’s not a parent or sibling!

I would have confiscated all her Xmas presents!