Really dislike 16-year-old niece: don't want to have her to stay

[valsays]

My sister was divorced several years ago and is sole parent to my niece who's almost 16. Her ex lives abroad and sees his DD rarely. I used to get on really well with DN and spent quite a lot of time with her until she reached the age of around 13, at which point she started to become obnoxious. I ignored the snide remarks and lack of consideration or gratitude for as long as I could, but last year things reached a head.

She and a friend of hers came to stay with me for 4 nights, as they have a couple of times a year for some years. I live in London and when she stays I do things with them that they wouldn't be able to do where they live. Last year we went down the Thames to Hampton Court on a boat, we shopped at Camden Market and Spitalfields and Hoxton, we went to Tate Modern and the Globe theatre, we saw a couple of shows and a couple of films. I pay for everything, obviously. DN's friend was lovely. DN was a complete nightmare. Didn't want to go out and do anything but was angling to go clubbing and angry with me for saying no. She was 14! Didn't want to go anywhere I suggested, couldn't suggest anything she'd like to do. One day we had a quiet day locally, because she was so adamant about not going out, and she complained we didn't do anything. I tried talking to her to find out what was going on, but she told me to eff off and then had a furious rant at me. She was really trying to be hurtful. I soaked it up and tried to comfort her friend, who found the situation difficult, but it really spoiled the last couple of days of their visit and she had another major outburst in the car when I took them home.

Last Christmas I bought her something that I'm sure she'd said she wanted. Something that cost £300. I was there when she opened it, with my DM and DS and other family members around. DN opened her present, pulled a face and then threw it at me and said 'You're as shit at buying presents as everything else' and walked out and slammed the door on us. My DM was shocked. My DS went after DN and told her off and there was a big row that ruined the day. DN hasn't spoken to me or contacted me since then. I've messaged her occasionally and she's just ignored me.

My DS knows what DN is like, but is still anticipating that this August I'll have her and the friend to stay as usual. As the time approaches I feel less and less like doing it. Their visits cost me over £1k, which I don't begrudge. But I'm not going to spend that sort of money and also soak up the abuse.

I've contacted my DS to say I'm not sure I want to continue the tradition. My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens. She's actually accused me of being unreasonable for not carrying on as usual. AIBU?

I suspect DSis is going through a really tough time and could do with some support. You don't have to host her kid, but maybe try to talk to her about it?

You're right: my DS is going through a really hard time on a number of fronts (including a cancer diagnosis, fortunately Stage 1, but still...) We do talk quite a lot, and in depth: we are close. I get that she needs a break from her DD and that me saying no means she can't have four or five days free of parental duties. I feel guilty. I also feel very sad and hurt that my lovely niece, who I had such fun with for years, is so angry with me. I'm also aware that perhaps what she needs right now is consistency and stability from the adults who love her, and that some of this behaviour may be testing me out to see whether I'll perform better than her dad did.

This.

It's called consequences. She behaves horribly, she doesn't get rewarded.

Let her miss out this year. Its a learning experience that she clearly needs.

Absolutely no way is this part and parcel of dealing with teens. There are a good number of teens in my family and amongst friends. I don't know.of any that would behave like this. Your DS has normalised this and appears to accept as run of the mill..
If this is the case has she even attempted to deal with it?

I would be so embarrassed and disgusted if my teens behaved like this and i would be telling them that too

Your DS needs to step up here

I've got 17 and 19 year old dds. No way is that sort of behaviour "just part of dealing with teens." It's bloody rude. No way should you invite them again. Also buy something a lot cheaper for Christmas next time. She doesn't deserve being spoilt like that. My dds lost their dad but no way would they treat someone like that.

A natural sanction for the rudeness and ungratefulness last summer and Christmas would be no treats including a week in London. And yet your sister seems tk expect it still...

Having read everything you have said, I think I would offer to have dn to stay, but not the friend, to give your sister a break. I would dial back on it being a big treat, no way would I be spending £1k on someone who didn’t appreciate it. I would take her to free stuff - some of the museums if she would do it, Camden market, a bit of shopping, maybe cinema. Keep it low key. Reclaim it as a visit to family not some all expenses paid holiday.

If you are such a shit Aunt, I cannot imagine niece would want to visit, she’s another year older and doesn’t sound like her behaviour towards you will be any better. I’m sorry but it’s a No from me. Surely your sister can see it won’t go well.

She'd be lucky to get an empty card from me after her performance.

DN opened her present, pulled a face and then threw it at me and said 'You're as shit at buying presents as everything else' and walked out and slammed the door on us.

That would be the end of me doing anything nice for her. I would absolutely not have her stay.

She sounds as though she's deeply unhappy and is acting out concerns that probably bear no relation to the matter in hand. Troubled teens are not good at communicating. It comes out as anger and in unreasonable behaviour - appalling behaviour sometimes.

This happened with one of my GDs - surly, rude, aggressive, throwing the most hurtful remarks she could at anyone who showed the slightest sign of caring for her. Turned out she was in a (secret) abusive relationship with a man in his early 20s who devoted his time to making her hate herself and distorting her image of her family in her eyes. Once the family found out, it was very hard to help her disentangle herself from this man, and it's done lasting damage to her life and career prospects. Because she was over 16, there was very little anyone was prepared to do.

It's true that she isn't your daughter and isn't your responsibility, but I'd always be worried when such a change happened in a teen's behaviour.

@Gladespade thanks, that's a good idea. Not having to look after the friend's feelings/ reactions would lift some of the pressure, too. I'll think about it.

You're right: my DS is going through a really hard time on a number of fronts (including a cancer diagnosis, fortunately Stage 1, but still...) We do talk quite a lot, and in depth: we are close. I get that she needs a break from her DD and that me saying no means she can't have four or five days free of parental duties. I feel guilty. I also feel very sad and hurt that my lovely niece, who I had such fun with for years, is so angry with me. I'm also aware that perhaps what she needs right now is consistency and stability from the adults who love her, and that some of this behaviour may be testing me out to see whether I'll perform better than her dad did.

This does make a difference - if you can bear it, it might be nice to offer to have your niece for a weekend to give your sister a break. But no friends, and don't organise anything. Tell her it's no skin off your nose if she wants to spend the entire weekend on her phone, but if she wants you to take her out she has to treat you with respect.

What really concerns me is that last time your niece wanted to go out clubbing. I don't think that wish will have changed. I think (hopefully not) she may try and deceived you and attempt to go out clubbing without your consent and that could be so disastrous.

Until whatever issues your niece is going through are sorted, I think visits to London are out

I'm in my 50s and wouldn't have DARED speak to anyone like this. And if I had my face would have been slapped so hard I'd never think of it again.
OP stand your ground, you've literally paid good money to be treated like shit.

I absolutely would not accept this type of behaviour. I'd tell dsis that whilst you love dn, until she improves her behaviour and attitude she won't be welcome. There has to be a boundary somewhere and it sounds like your dsis is enabling this terrible attitude by not enforcing one of her own but you don't have to do the same.

Fortuantely I come from a family that doesn't think that slapping people is the solution to anything.

I don't think your sister is a "dick" as a pp said. I have a lot of sympathy for her, she clearly has a lot on her plate at the moment and the few days' break from her dd's schenanigans would be very welcome. That doesn't mean you're morally obliged to go ahead with it, at all - you need to decide your own boundaries and stick to them - but I wouldn't condemn your sister for wanting it. She is being a bit selfish, but stress and suffering makes people selfish, I know that's been true of me at times.

She probably also desperately wants you to keep giving DN chances and not close the door on her, because she'll be worried about her and it's natural that we see the good in our own children (underneath all the obnoxious shit) and don't want them to burn their bridges. Again, that doesn't mean you have to do anything that crosses your boundaries, but your sister isn't horrible for trying to keep relationships going while her dd is sabotaging them.

Personally I don't think I would offer the usual trip this year, I would be worried about keeping DN safe if she's so out of control. I would let my sister know that I wasn't washing my hands of her though, and I might write DN a letter explaining why it wasn't happening and saying the door is open if she wants to have a civil conversation about what's gone wrong.

I think you should message DN and advise that you are having second thoughts about having her stay due to her behaviour. Use clear examples and let her know that she has been rude and deliberately hurtful. Ask her to explain herself and justify why she thinks you need to put yourself in that position again.

She sounds vile op, and you sound like an absolutely wonderful auntie, that anyone would be more than lucky to have. Teens can be difficult, but this sounds absolutely extreme. If one of mine was rude to a family member like this, I'd be too embarrassed to expect them to spend anytime with them again. Your sister is totally out of line, almost excusing her behaviour, and expecting you to have to deal with it because she does. That's not acceptable, and she's not doing your niece any favours in the long run by making her not understand the implications of treating people the way she has you. She shouldn't get the privilege of your company after treating you so horribly. Valuable life lesson for her here, treat people like crap, you don't get the pleasure of their company. End of. Unless she gives you a huge, genuine, heartfelt apology (and has a drastic personality transplant) no more visits until she's grown up enough to understand that her behaviours come with consequences.

I would tell DS that you are messaging DNiece directly about this and her response will determine if she is allowed to come.

I'd message Dniece and say her DM has mentioned about the summer. You would normally love to have her, but you are still very upset about how she behaved last time and for her reaction to your gift at Christmas. If she wants to visit you would like an apology for that an agreement that you will work out activities together and the invite will only be for Dniece not friend as you want to spend time on your own with her.

How about you do have just the niece as usual, no friends and no treats.

let her stay in her room and bother. That is usual for most teens anyway.

If she’s rude to you then walk off.

Not much skin off your nose and preserves relationships

At the beginning of your thread I was thinking - aw she’s a teen, tough years, cut some slack etc. but then I read this:
DN opened her present, pulled a face and then threw it at me and said 'You're as shit at buying presents as everything else' and walked out and slammed the door on us
😱😱😱
Im sure I was capable of being self involved, moody and bratty as a teen , but not a chance in hell I would ever have behaved such a way to my aunt or anyone else!! Nor would any other teens I know.
Also these visits cost you 1,000s? No way would I be continuing to do this for such an ungrateful child. Hope she has a serious attitude change soon.

No not usual, saying that as the mum of 3 teen DDs.

How about you have your sister to stay and treat her instead, sounds like she could do with a break.

I have got a 16 yr old niece and there is no way she would speak 2 me or treat me the way your niece has. Her behaviour is unacceptable!

If my niece was behaving like that I would talk to her to find out what the issues were and find ways to support! If she was still being rude, I would let her know I will always be there for her but will not put up with that kind of attitude.

I hope your sister gets the treatment she needs and has a speedy recovery!

Not a chance I’d have her! And this behaviour is not part and parcel of having a teenager. I have a few and none of them would act this way. It sounds like she runs rings around her mother and isn’t punished for bad behaviour.