Really dislike 16-year-old niece: don't want to have her to stay

[valsays]

My sister was divorced several years ago and is sole parent to my niece who's almost 16. Her ex lives abroad and sees his DD rarely. I used to get on really well with DN and spent quite a lot of time with her until she reached the age of around 13, at which point she started to become obnoxious. I ignored the snide remarks and lack of consideration or gratitude for as long as I could, but last year things reached a head.

She and a friend of hers came to stay with me for 4 nights, as they have a couple of times a year for some years. I live in London and when she stays I do things with them that they wouldn't be able to do where they live. Last year we went down the Thames to Hampton Court on a boat, we shopped at Camden Market and Spitalfields and Hoxton, we went to Tate Modern and the Globe theatre, we saw a couple of shows and a couple of films. I pay for everything, obviously. DN's friend was lovely. DN was a complete nightmare. Didn't want to go out and do anything but was angling to go clubbing and angry with me for saying no. She was 14! Didn't want to go anywhere I suggested, couldn't suggest anything she'd like to do. One day we had a quiet day locally, because she was so adamant about not going out, and she complained we didn't do anything. I tried talking to her to find out what was going on, but she told me to eff off and then had a furious rant at me. She was really trying to be hurtful. I soaked it up and tried to comfort her friend, who found the situation difficult, but it really spoiled the last couple of days of their visit and she had another major outburst in the car when I took them home.

Last Christmas I bought her something that I'm sure she'd said she wanted. Something that cost £300. I was there when she opened it, with my DM and DS and other family members around. DN opened her present, pulled a face and then threw it at me and said 'You're as shit at buying presents as everything else' and walked out and slammed the door on us. My DM was shocked. My DS went after DN and told her off and there was a big row that ruined the day. DN hasn't spoken to me or contacted me since then. I've messaged her occasionally and she's just ignored me.

My DS knows what DN is like, but is still anticipating that this August I'll have her and the friend to stay as usual. As the time approaches I feel less and less like doing it. Their visits cost me over £1k, which I don't begrudge. But I'm not going to spend that sort of money and also soak up the abuse.

I've contacted my DS to say I'm not sure I want to continue the tradition. My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens. She's actually accused me of being unreasonable for not carrying on as usual. AIBU?

Edinburgh's nice, but don't be surprised when she throws your generosity back in your face. Again.

You sound like an amazing auntie @valsays. I feel very sorry for DN who probably does know about her mum’s diagnosis, and had a shit dad. I wish that I had had a caring relative like you. I think spending time with her alone is great. Going to Edinburgh sounds amazing. I think if she is rude you can nip it in the bud if her friend isn’t there. She absolutely does need to be made accountable for what she says and how she says it. She’s old enough to be told that people will only tolerate being hurt by their loved ones so many times and that this kind of behaviour will eventually push people who love her away. Also, while you can understand why she’s acting out, it’s unacceptable.

I would see how this next visit goes and if the behaviour hasn’t improved, I would be looking at her going to a specialist.

our niece was much the same (dotting parents) and at nearly 30 now has undergone many assessments and treatments. I won’t go too much into detail as it’s extreme and upsetting, but Mum is her official guardian, niece is unable to access medication or prescriptions on her own.

try not to be alone with her too. In our case Niece has made some terrible allegations against her much loved granny, former BF’s and girls at school/s she went to.

Hopefully this is just an extreme example, but thus my suggestion if she hasn’t tried to be nicer and respectful to you, she needs professional help.

You can’t longer term blame it on cancer, divorce, teenage years etc. At some point you have to be strong and draw a line and if she isn’t coping with those very things, then a good specialist will suss that all out.

Wow! We’ve all been teenagers & I wouldn’t have dared to behave like that with any of my family. Your DN needs to understand that her behaviour is NOT acceptable & if you host again you’ll be advocating it. Save your money & time and treat yourself!!

I'm raising 2 teens, both past age of 16, neither of them has ever come close to acting this way towards me or anyone else. This is not normal.

They'll have bad days or moments where they lose their cool, but they are never deliberately hurtful or spiteful towards another person. And they always apologise once they've calmed down.

Time for this young lady to learn that behaviour has consequences, no more special treats from her favourite aunt until she can be courteous and treat you properly x

I hope your DN accepts the invitation and ground rules, and you have a lovely time together in Edinburgh OP. Teen years are so hard to navigate, and her recent experiences are probably causing her to lash out and be unpleasant when really all she needs is consistency and stability. Well done for working through your frustration to provide that for her. I’m sure in a few more years when she’s grown up, your DN will realise how much you have done for her. She is very lucky to have you

There's a difference between teenage behaviour and spoiled teenage behaviour. Someone has to draw the line what's acceptable and what's not.

I have 2 sons and 1 daughter, and I have never had any of them treat me that way it's absolutely NOT normal teen behaviour. I would definitely NOT have her come to stay with me, why would anyone want to be treated so disrespectfully, especially when you are doing everything you can to make their stay interesting, at your own expense!

Tell her you won't be having her and give all the reasons x

You spent over a £1000 last visit and £300 for the Christmas present. If you really want to give your sister a break:

1. Echoing PP, invite your DM and DS for the August break and make her father provide little darling's cover.

P.s just a thought - the friend's parents haven't offered a reciprocal stay - I wonder why?

Because their daughter came home and told them how awful she'd been in London! She'd probably slagged off her Christmas present, too.

I would rather set fire to £1000 than be treated like that.

100% no from me. Maybe treat yourself to some nice activities during that period and let the little brat realise what she has missed out on. Or better still invite your sister over and give her a break from vile daughter and enjoy some time together.

This is not normal acceptable behaviour

Edinburgh sounds grand . Don’t worry about whether it’s a reward for bad behaviour- if it gets you both through the week then grab it with both hands ! Small steps eh ?

I’m in bits OP, like actual tears.

Thank you for choosing to hold onto her even tighter. They think they’re so big and really this little girl just needs to know her auntie will never leave her. How much she’s fighting with you just lets me know how desperately she loves you.

She will look back in 10 years time and cringe no doubt. Until then, stick it out while she’s still hard to like.

No but you come from a family who accept being treated like shit and with zero consequences.

As you said, when a 16 yr old digs their heels in, what can you do?

You open the door and give them a choice........

Some people have suggested that the OP go and stay at her sister's place to babysit the niece so that her DS can go for a break somewhere. But why does a 16 year old need 'babysitting'? Oftentimes a 16 year old IS the babysitter! To younger kids.

I think we're in danger of infantilising teenagers, tbh. Yes this girl has had a horrible thing happen to her, in being virtually abandoned by her father (what a POS).

But she is doing well at school, and is popular, the OP says. And had plenty of love and support from her DM, DGM, and her aunt (and maybe others?). She sounds intelligent and should be self aware enough to realise that you don't kick someone who loves you and has done so much for you in the teeth like that. At 16 she should be capable of civilised behaviour, she's not a little girl. Or how will she function as an adult?

Sadly she seems to have taken against you for some reason, OP, and I doubt she even wants to spend time with you on a summer break. Unless she chooses to explain, you won't find out why either, I know it's frustrating. But why are you setting yourself up for further rudeness and/or rejection? It will hurt you, and it is teaching your DN that it's normal to treat people who love you badly, not good.

In your shoes I would drop the rope BUT let her know that if she ever wants to come back, explain and repair the relationship, then your door is open to her. I am sure you would be willing to forgive and forget, as you seem to be a kind and loving person.

I think there are quite a lot of harsh comments in here about your DS and DN. Sounds like they've both had a rough time.
But absolutely wouldn't be hosting her, and it sounds like she had a terrible time anyway.
I would maybe consider sending a message though, acknowledging that she clearly didn't enjoy it, so you've decided to skip it this year, but that you're happy to hear from her if she feels differently.
Sounds like you'll get radio silence, but at 16 she's old enough to speak to you directly if she wants to.

I agree with this PP.
That is not normal behaviour. Stand your ground.

I also don't think you should be footing the whole bill however they behave. Your sister and friend's parents should also contribute.

@MILTOBE I was being sarcastic!

So sorry! That's what comes of commenting while I'm working!

Hi @valsays I think there’s been some good suggestions about spending time just with her not a friend, having some downtime etc whilst still holding boundaries about her behaviour.
I also wanted to suggest your sister looks into doing an NVR course (non violent resistance). She could find it really helpful in rebuilding her relationship with her daughter. Many local authority Early Help departments offer it. All the best!

Have seen this sort of thing before for instance somebody within scenario, wishes to burnish their parenting credentials and does so by attacking her DM and her family.

'I am not at fault,' they say to DN in not so many words, it's DM, DFM etc who did this, and your poor DN believes and believes absolutely this is true, this is why she is so angry at your side of the family.

The more you, unwittngly, undermne this narrative and this manipulation of your DN, by being kind, the more you will be attached behind scenes and DN laps it up.

What to do? Explain to DN, good if it came from her Mother, 'that everybody is angry at the mioment and apportioning blame and finger pointing.'

'Just say, the divorce is nobody's fault least of all DN, and advise her to rise above the fray and not be angry, enjoy her life and the treats given, to accept and give herself permission to be happy accepting this is not showing disloyalty to DF and his family. She has a right to be happy.

If her DF camp attqckes verbally other family members, all DN has to say, 'this is not my fault and I will be happy with you and your family and be happy with Mum and her family.' That might sort this or at least mitigat

Good luck, PS am not professional just a life traveler who has seen this before.

Good luck.