Really dislike 16-year-old niece: don't want to have her to stay

[valsays]

My sister was divorced several years ago and is sole parent to my niece who's almost 16. Her ex lives abroad and sees his DD rarely. I used to get on really well with DN and spent quite a lot of time with her until she reached the age of around 13, at which point she started to become obnoxious. I ignored the snide remarks and lack of consideration or gratitude for as long as I could, but last year things reached a head.

She and a friend of hers came to stay with me for 4 nights, as they have a couple of times a year for some years. I live in London and when she stays I do things with them that they wouldn't be able to do where they live. Last year we went down the Thames to Hampton Court on a boat, we shopped at Camden Market and Spitalfields and Hoxton, we went to Tate Modern and the Globe theatre, we saw a couple of shows and a couple of films. I pay for everything, obviously. DN's friend was lovely. DN was a complete nightmare. Didn't want to go out and do anything but was angling to go clubbing and angry with me for saying no. She was 14! Didn't want to go anywhere I suggested, couldn't suggest anything she'd like to do. One day we had a quiet day locally, because she was so adamant about not going out, and she complained we didn't do anything. I tried talking to her to find out what was going on, but she told me to eff off and then had a furious rant at me. She was really trying to be hurtful. I soaked it up and tried to comfort her friend, who found the situation difficult, but it really spoiled the last couple of days of their visit and she had another major outburst in the car when I took them home.

Last Christmas I bought her something that I'm sure she'd said she wanted. Something that cost £300. I was there when she opened it, with my DM and DS and other family members around. DN opened her present, pulled a face and then threw it at me and said 'You're as shit at buying presents as everything else' and walked out and slammed the door on us. My DM was shocked. My DS went after DN and told her off and there was a big row that ruined the day. DN hasn't spoken to me or contacted me since then. I've messaged her occasionally and she's just ignored me.

My DS knows what DN is like, but is still anticipating that this August I'll have her and the friend to stay as usual. As the time approaches I feel less and less like doing it. Their visits cost me over £1k, which I don't begrudge. But I'm not going to spend that sort of money and also soak up the abuse.

I've contacted my DS to say I'm not sure I want to continue the tradition. My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens. She's actually accused me of being unreasonable for not carrying on as usual. AIBU?

My friend in Edinburgh has messaged back to say we can stay there. My plan is at the weekend to write a formal invitation for DN to join me on a trip to Edinburgh, with an RSVP card as a kind of ice-breaking joke

No wonder she's a brat. She's treated you like shit, and now you're rolling over and inviting her on holiday. One of the most batshit things I've ever read on here. She will carry on being a brat, so long as you and the family keep taking all of her shit. Good luck to her when she enters the working world, and finds out that most people won't tolerate such obnoxious behaviour.

I've raised two teens, who are now mid to late 20's. I've also worked with a lot of teens. I have NEVER met anyone as nasty and rude as your "dear" niece.

But hey, let's give her a free trip to Edinburgh. Great plan.

Teens being moody, being a bit ungrateful, pushing boundaries and not knowing what they want: I expect.

Teens shouting and swearing at you and saying you're shit at buying presents etc.: not acceptable, especially to people who aren't their parents.

If my teenage nieces spoke to me the way your niece has, not only would my brother and sister-in-law be furious with them and make them apologise, they'd also be incredibly embarrassed and would never assume I'd look after them again.

Obviously your niece's behaviour isn't acceptable but in my opinion the bigger issue is how your sister is responding to it.

It sounds like your niece is having a bit of a shitty time and is struggling - it happens; being a teenager is hard. But your sister should absolutely be setting red-line issues around behaviour. While she may accept being sworn at, your niece needs to understand that she cannot behave like that. At 16, I imagine she'll be looking to get a job sometime soon. Is that how she'd treat a boss or a colleague? No. She can't do that. Your sister needs to nip this in the bud now.

And until you see something change, why are you planning to continue "treating" your niece to weekends away?! I don't advocate going no contact but horrible behaviour shouldn't be rewarded. In my world, I'd want to see better behaviour before I treated my niece to anything beyond a basic birthday/Christmas present or a coffee etc.

26 pages and @valsays has decided MN is the issue, not her niece 😂

I think the OP's subsequent replies on the thread (given the extreme question she posed whereupon "I don't even like my niece!") are a cacophony of supercilious cringe.

Going to stay with distant friends off the back of a 6 month fuck you strop is insanity. All the hotels in the city are fully booked during the festival btw OP; a heads up, for when the guy turfs you both out.

Thats okay, the trains back to London are at least hourly from Waverley. Sometimes every 30 mins.

I can't decide if this is a witty piss take of/or in genuine keeping with the OP's supercilious replies (it's that sort of thread 😂)!

Oh yes, my niece and nephew who lost their mother suddenly at 13 and 15 are in such a happier place than OPs DN! Lovely little assumption that because they don't act in a despicable manner that they are oh so lucky!!!

Bit of both actually! The trains really are that frequent (maybe not on Sunday, would have to check) so if they are chucked out by the friend, they'll hopefully be able to get back to Kings Cross without too much of a fuss. It's that or they're sleeping on a bench in the Meadows because hotel accommodation in Edinburgh in August will be non-existant.

You say you saw your niece regularly when she was growing up and moved into her home during her parents divorce. Did you then move away to London? Do you not see her regularly any more? Perhaps your niece thinks that you have already left her?

They can behave horribly, but it sounds like DN is lashing out about something and your sister needs to try and find out what is going on with her. Teens are wired totally differently - that doesn't mean they are all horrible nor that bad behaviour cannot be picked up on, but generally it is best to pick your battles.

I wouldn't be rewarding her with another fancy trip so soon but something more low key, setting some strict ground rules first.

Behaviour is communicating. Obviously it's not acceptable but I would suggest going much much deeper to try and find out what happens at 13 aside from teen years and what changed her.

I would tell her I loved her very much and speficically mention some outing or memories but say until she wanted to tell me what was up I couldn't have her to stay etc.

@Blondiebeachbabe the poor teens around you!!

How horrible to talk like this about a child who is clearly hurting.
Really shocking response, from you and lots of other, sadly.

This absolutely is not normal for teens! I have two, including a 16 year old and while the 16 tear old doesn’t really enjoy days out with us too much, he is polite and tries to enjoy it. Our 15 year old is much better.

I get that your sister wants a break from her but that isn’t your problem. Be clear and tell her that you refuse to spend over £1k only to be thanked with a mouthful of abuse.

She’s your Niece, not your child, don’t take this on. I’d be ashamed if I was your sister and I most definitely wouldn’t call you for not wanting to host her when she doesn’t even want to be looking after her all summer.

I would absolutely not be hosting her and friend this summer. I have two teenagers and have never know this level of disrespect. She needs discipline not excuses from your sister.

ABSOLUTELY YANBU. She needs some consequences apart from anything else

It wouid be a wrap for me 100% that is NOT your responsibility

I think your 16 year old DN is a very scared little girl hiding it very well with anger. Her father has disappeared to the other side of the world and now she is worried that her mum could be taken too. Of corse she shouldn’t be rude but she is a16 year old dealing with very difficult emotions.
I wouldn’t worry too much about rewarding bad behaviour.if she has been as well brought up as you say she will know that this behaviour is not right and probably feels bad about it.That won’t stop her doing it but she will feel bad.
if you can at all bear it be there for her stand alongside her rather than against her….all easier said than done when you have a raging child on your hands.
Have a look at NVR technique’s which can be really helpful with this behaviour.

Frankly, I'd be telling the niece exactly what a rude, entitled, ungrateful, vile brat she is and then telling her to fuck off. Your sister needs to grow a spine and tackle her child's shitty behaviour.

It’s obvious this kid needs therapy. It’s said 6-12 yrs are worse ages for divorce. It’s also well known that some children act out in many/most ways OP is explaining when they’ve not dealt with divorce. Acting out to a relative you love isn’t surprising - you’re a trusted adult, you’re an outlet for her pain and frustration. I don’t know what led to the divorce but if there was a lot of fighting or worse - then im not surprised DS is dismissing this as just a teenager. DN needs some help. She doesn’t need abandonment and judgement. Maybe if if you (OP) can figure out from a professional how to support her or rebuild your relationship ahead of time…

What’s wring with the world is people forget it takes a village. People (not you OP) need to stop their adult tantrums and harsh behaviour towards teens. They’re really not adults. Their hormones can really mess them up. Not helping them is what skcuf them up for life!

@valsays I am sorry to say this but it sounds to me like she’s been totally and completely spoiled. Why is she having this kind of money spent on her anyway, it’s crazy. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. I’m sorry but this level of spoiling will create a monster.

Some teens can be like that with their parents, but I don’t know any, apart from ones with real behavioural problems, who behave like that with extended family. Your sister is part of the problem here if she thinks that’s normal teen behaviour.

@valsays I'm glad you've come to a decision. I hope she does RSVP and goes with you to Edinburgh. Keep us updated.