Really dislike 16-year-old niece: don't want to have her to stay

[valsays]

My sister was divorced several years ago and is sole parent to my niece who's almost 16. Her ex lives abroad and sees his DD rarely. I used to get on really well with DN and spent quite a lot of time with her until she reached the age of around 13, at which point she started to become obnoxious. I ignored the snide remarks and lack of consideration or gratitude for as long as I could, but last year things reached a head.

She and a friend of hers came to stay with me for 4 nights, as they have a couple of times a year for some years. I live in London and when she stays I do things with them that they wouldn't be able to do where they live. Last year we went down the Thames to Hampton Court on a boat, we shopped at Camden Market and Spitalfields and Hoxton, we went to Tate Modern and the Globe theatre, we saw a couple of shows and a couple of films. I pay for everything, obviously. DN's friend was lovely. DN was a complete nightmare. Didn't want to go out and do anything but was angling to go clubbing and angry with me for saying no. She was 14! Didn't want to go anywhere I suggested, couldn't suggest anything she'd like to do. One day we had a quiet day locally, because she was so adamant about not going out, and she complained we didn't do anything. I tried talking to her to find out what was going on, but she told me to eff off and then had a furious rant at me. She was really trying to be hurtful. I soaked it up and tried to comfort her friend, who found the situation difficult, but it really spoiled the last couple of days of their visit and she had another major outburst in the car when I took them home.

Last Christmas I bought her something that I'm sure she'd said she wanted. Something that cost £300. I was there when she opened it, with my DM and DS and other family members around. DN opened her present, pulled a face and then threw it at me and said 'You're as shit at buying presents as everything else' and walked out and slammed the door on us. My DM was shocked. My DS went after DN and told her off and there was a big row that ruined the day. DN hasn't spoken to me or contacted me since then. I've messaged her occasionally and she's just ignored me.

My DS knows what DN is like, but is still anticipating that this August I'll have her and the friend to stay as usual. As the time approaches I feel less and less like doing it. Their visits cost me over £1k, which I don't begrudge. But I'm not going to spend that sort of money and also soak up the abuse.

I've contacted my DS to say I'm not sure I want to continue the tradition. My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens. She's actually accused me of being unreasonable for not carrying on as usual. AIBU?

I'm no help to you. I'm still trying to deal with the nightmare niece who got nasty with her cousins and when I pulled her up on it she said "well I'm allowed to do whatever I want cuz mom tried to kill me". Which was true. 40 years back and I still haven't come up with a suitable response.

I think OP knows her niece won't want to spend time with her unless she's splashing the cash. Hence the trip away. That's the quickest change in attitude I've ever seen from an OP on here. "I really don't like my niece" to "stop badmouthing my niece everyone, she's worth every penny"

Probably due to the marriage breaking down,and those around (close) overcompensating for that which can result in behaviour issues,may need some outside support.

Sounds like your sister is the main problem here. Absolutely don’t have her stay.

Hell no, she has to learn actions have consequences, I’d be appalled and back you up.

quietly uninvite and see how it plays out.

gifts limited to £20 from now on, how about £20 cash and leave it at that (at most).
I’m sorry you had to experience that, gosh I wish I had an auntie like you at her age. It sounds you go all out, and she is going through one hell of a phase that I would have got the telling off and grounding of a lifetime over!

Do not invite her. Her behaviour is ridiculous, unacceptable. You won’t be helping her by having her back. Cheeky little shit! How dare she. She needs to be taught behaviour has consequences. If that’s how your sister responds to the situation, it’s no surprise her daughter has not been taught manners.

You don’t have to put up with this behaviour. Your sister has normalised it in her household but you don’t have to put up with it.

@valsays I haven’t read the whole thread so forgive me if this is redundant but two approaches that came to mind are ‘The Explosive Child’ by Ross Greene (based on collaborative problem solving) and non violent resistance (NVR) which can be a really good approach for teens with intense externalising behaviours. Just in case you wanted to have some help in mentalizing what is happening for her and for you in your responses. She sounds insufferable at the moment but if you had a good relationship with her until pre teen she’s likely not too far removed from that version of herself. Your sister and niece are lucky to have you.

Your niece is vile - no one regardless of whether they are a tween/teen/young adult should never speak to you like that. Your sister has failed to manage her behaviour - unless she had other mental health issues or trauma going on that’s just unacceptable to speak to you like that and absolutely not normal!

It sounds like your sister is enabling her daughter’s bad behaviour. I’d turn around and let her know that she isn’t welcome this year due to her behaviour last year and at Christmas, but that if she learns to be respectful and appreciative she will be welcome in the years to come.

All behaviour has consequences, it’s time she actually received some.

There have to be consequences for your DN, she cant get sway with just a talking too which she then turns into a row.

I think its puberty and will right itself ina few years, so yes say no until she matures.

You aren't being unreasonable whatsoever. She is being a brat. However, many teenagers are, without properly realising it. They strongly believe in things, without proper real-life experiences and/or the ability to process them. She sounds angry. Hormones are insane at this time, which mixed with immaturity (I was a mature teen, but was only alive a certain, relatively small, amount of time, so was immature, I can see that now) is a bit of a dangerous cocktail. You've been wonderful. And you're being asked of a lot. Please don't give up on her though, whatever you do. Maybe it's best her friend doesn't actually come this time, it might create a time for ye to bond again? And possibly limit it to 2/3 nights instead of the usual, in case she is torture!!

I suspect she might refuse to come but asking is still a gesture that shows you haven’t abandoned her.

Dear OP,
Your sister and your niece are so lucky to have you in their lives! If we just think about your sister she really needs to have a break with everything that's going on in her life right now. So regardless of how the niece behaves it would mean a lot to your DS to get a week "off". Is there not any affordable summer camps in her area? If you decide to host your niece then take her and only her so you dont need to tend to another teen's needs as well. See it as respite care to help your DS rather than concentrating on your niece "having a good time" with costly activities that she might not appreciate.
Good idea to spend time with your social worker friend. In my experience teens do tend to moderate their behaviour when there is an "outsider" so I would hope she would behave herself better than with only family.
You seem like a lovely person and if you hang in there Im sure your niece will grow up into a lovely young woman.

What you do is put on your big girl pants, get them nice and comfy, go to your sister and - like a real grown up - say to her what you’ve said here. It’s not that difficult.

Hopefully she'll have grown up a bit in the last 6 months and she will start to appreciate you soon OP. You sound lovely. I used to live in Leith, the Shore is well worth a visit. Mimi's is a great cafe / bakehouse, really good afternoon tea if you fancy that

You are a lovely aunt. I hope she accepts the invite to Edinburgh.
People really underestimate the problems that family breakups cause children and young people.
Enjoy Edinburgh

You sound like an amazing aunt; generous and thoughtful. DN sounds awful. Trying to give her benefit of doubt is she lashing out to test your love or perhaps she is jealous of your life in London?
Either way it sounds like another stay with you this year would be equally bad. No way should you have to put up with her entitled, vile behaviour again.
For context my DS takes DD(14) for lunch once or twice a year (she lives very far away) and me and DD are happy with that!

Only read OPs posts so apologies if this has already been said, but I wonder if as well as the fear of rejection is she jealous, resentful and pushing you away because you can afford a lifestyle that her mum can't. Then conflicted because she loves you!

I hope it goes well OP. I still think organising it all for her makes it far too easy for her to turn her nose up and reject it just like she did the Christmas present. You'd get a tonne more buy-in and give her a lot less ammo by involving her at the planning stage.

But they can grow up a lot even in 6 months.

I'd love to know what the £300 boring practical gift was.

NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.

Absolutely this. Behaviour has to have consequences and the consequence of her being absolutely awful to you is a free trip. You’re an absolute walkover I’m afraid, no wonder she’s taking you for a ride.

The fact your sister has CHOSEN to tolerate this behaviour does not mean you have to and if you don't want her to stay then you can choose not to. One of my granddaughters went through a phase of being an out and out brat with attitude and ungratefulness to her parents and I told her she cannot stay at my house util she fixed up, and would let my other grandchildren stay (six of them) whilst she stayed home. She is soon 18 and has slowly started to mend her way but there's no way I'd tolerate that behaviour and told my daughter the reason why.

I'd be pointing out that: a) you're still waiting on the apology for her rudeness at Christmas and b) she clearly didn't enjoy the visit last year as she complained and was rude during her visit.

If her Mother wishes to fund such a trip, I'm sure she can without your involvement.

It's something you can perhaps consider doing again when she is mature enough to be a gracious guest. (And possibly tell DSis that). Hopefully she'll grow up a bit in the next year and you can consider it again next year.

So what happened Christmas? Did she keep the £300 present or did you return it & get a refund?!
If your sis needs a break… could she come and stay at yours and have a break in London for a few days… and you stay at her house and literally just babysit DN?
As mean as it sounds I wouldn’t want to spend any money or too much effort … the money would be better spent sending your SIS for a spa day(s) while you just babysit….
OR could she not stay with the friends family for a few days?? The friend gets a few days being spoilt with you.. surely her parent(s) could help your sis out a few days/nights?? Maybe freeing you up to have a spa with your sis