Big bust up over holiday, but who's unreasonable about DC?

[on103]

We are due to go on holiday in a couple of weeks. Me, H, our DC and H's older DC.

He is self employed and it's the root cause of 99% of our issues. I am aware how difficult it can be but he absolutely uses it as an excuse to get out of certain aspects of family life. He is a workaholic imo.

Something has "cropped up" and he is now making noises about not being able to make the holiday. I'm so furious. I don't even know why I'm surprised. We have had a big argument about it with him saying I don't appreciate how hard he works (as if I don't) and me feeling like he never makes time for us. It will be the first holiday we've had as a family in years.

He has "kindly" suggested that I go by myself with DC which I've said don't worry I will be. However he was shocked when I said he could break to DSC that there wasn't a holiday anymore.

He seems to think he can duck out but I'll just go off with all the kids and leave him free for a week. I have said absolutely not. I'm going with DC but I am not going to take DSC too and let him duck out of his responsibilities. He can stay if he wants but he'll have to be the one to let them down.

I'm half minded to just never come back as it is!

Who is being unreasonable? (Aside from DH being a twat in general)...

Me for saying I'm not taking all the kids alone

Or DH for expecting me to just fuck off for a week with all the kids so he can work.

I’m not sure how she’s ‘punishing’ her husband/his children any more than he’s punishing them.

She signed up to go on a family holiday, not a holiday where she solo parented three children (two of which that aren’t even hers) and her husband stayed at home. She neither agreed to nor promised that. Plans changed because her husband is no longer going, and this means that his children also can’t go because there’s no parent available to take them. That isn’t a punishment - that’s a consequence. It’s irrelevant whether her husband is choosing to work or has to - his children don’t cease to be his responsibility because something came up at work. That they aren’t going on holiday now is on him.

Divorced dad CBA to parent his kids. Gets another woman in. Woman then has his kid. Now she can do ALL the parenting during his contact time, because she has to parent her own kid so why not, right?

Bless him, he's sulking because he won't get his child free week off.

I am referring to you saying if she can’t manage. What does can’t manage mean? Why does it have to get to that point? It goes absolutely without bloody saying that if she really can’t manage then she can’t take them, just like it goes without saying that if taking them will tip her over into a mental breakdown the right decision is not to go. Women are not obligated to do everything for their partner that they can possibly manage, they are allowed to say no because they don’t want to, because they won’t enjoy it, because it will be stressful and a hassle; these are all good enough reasons. He’s opted out, she is not stuck and just has to manage without him. She is allowed to say to him: No. there are consequences to your decision, there isn’t an opt out to parenting your children this week. You can’t be arsed parenting them on holiday, so you can parent them at home.

Women internalising the message that children are ‘women’s work’.

The belief that a new woman should suffer by virtue of being in a relationship with their ex.

People pleasers that feel they can’t say no, but then resent those that can and do, aka misery loves company/‘if I feel like I have to do this, so should you!’. Ime these are the ones that are deathly afraid of being seen as ‘mean’, and believe others similarly fear it.

Those that believe struggling when you don’t have to is actually virtuous, and that whatever prize you (don’t) get for competing in the martyr olympics makes it all worth it.

Ones that genuinely buy into that narrative and can’t understand why it’s not appealing to everyone.

Because as far as we are aware she could take them, she’s just choosing not to, to make a point to him and make him tell them. Your reply suggests her hands are completely tied, like there’s absolutely no way on this earth she could take them. Of course it stems from the dad and it is his fault of course, we’ve been given no context to the work issue arising so can only assume it’s none important to warrant this reaction but I believe - i.e my opinion and yours is yours whether it’s perceived as punishment or consequence, as we haven’t been provided with all the information, that she could take them.
I work with the actual consequences of these children’s ‘blended’ lives where adults don’t think of the children first and I don’t believe either are thinking of the children here. Unless she would struggle to holiday on her own which would be valid to not take them and a consequence of dad not going (although had offer from MIL) then I don’t think she should cancel
their holiday as that feels like punishment if it’s because of how you’ve laid it out. Could but won’t

So what if she ‘could’? She doesn’t want to, never offered to, and never led anyone to believe she would. She isn’t responsible for his children, let alone somehow more responsible for their feelings than he is. His failings don’t oblige her to provide what he won’t.

There’s lots of things that we all ‘could’ do that we choose not to. That doesn’t mean that we choose not to as a form of punishment.

💯 agreed

Well, I’ll agree to disagree. Not equally responsible but still responsible, you do sign up to that when you decide to join someone’s else’s family unit. You make it sound like a contract was signed for the holiday. My point is it’s unfair on a lot of people here but the children come off worse and it’s very sad when adults (all involved) knowingly make that choice and as a punishment or consequence, I couldn’t choose to make children be the losers in the situation

Sure, consider it a contract if you like - she agreed to a family holiday, not one where her husband stayed at home and she provided childcare for his kids. She wouldn’t have agreed to the holiday in the first place if she had known that from the beginning.

That’s what you believe someone signs up for, and if you are a stepparent/ever become a stepparent you’re free to make that decision for yourself. You entirely lack the authority to impose that on anyone else.

‘Stepparent’ is literally just a title, and doesn’t in fact make a stepparent responsible for their stepchildren.

We’re all responsible for everyone’s feelings. There’s no point back and forthing with you as we are of different opinion so I’ll leave it there

Lol. Again, you’re free to decide that for yourself, but that isn’t a diktat you have any power to impose on anyone else, however much you may wish to.

basic human courtesy and rights aren’t dictating. Im basically saying to consider the children and be kind and you deem
that a power to/not impose, on children, wow

Basic human courtesy would cover the husband considering his wife and children. Basic human courtesy is not dumping your childcare responsibilities on your wife. Basic human courtesy isn’t saying to the wife ‘oh how shit of him, but do what he wants anyway’.

You are telling someone what they signed up for based on your own beliefs, as if your opinion holds more weight than their own. You literally do not have the power to impose your beliefs on anyone else - that’s a statement of fact, and one I’m surprised you’re not familiar enough with that being told it elicited a ‘wow’.

Im basically saying to consider the children and be kind

I agree. Their father should definitely do this.

Honestly you both sound pretty awful.

deary me I think you need your own thread by your responses. This was iabu to leave the children.
the Op asked if she was being unreasonable and I have given an answer, yes I think she is and could handle it differently as a way to not punish the children.
im not going over and over why we should consider children’s welfare.
if you believe that saying we should be kind and considerate to children who are the biggest victims of these situations as forcing a belief/telling someone that they signed up for it (as if it’s ok to say they didn’t), as I say, probably need a thread yourself
I’m not sure replying is helpful to you as your replies feel like there spiralling, definitely not helpful to the thread so I will save you the favour of replying and let you know I won’t bother looking

Ah yes, the "access by proxy" arrangement, this used to drive me up the wall

I’m not sure how responding to your points is ‘spiraling ’, unless we’re working with very different definitions of that too.

I know you’re looking for a witty and impactful ‘✌🏼’ that distracts from your inability to dispute my actual statements, but this just feels clumsy tbh. If you don’t want me to reply to you then don’t tag me in your own replies.

It's not "could", I'm sure it's not impossible but it would likely be a pretty crap holiday for all concerned. Age gap means more compromises on what is possible and even spending time by a pool gets much more stressful - how do you keep eyes on 3 kids alone given the ages. Older ones will be chafing to be somewhere bigger, younger one more limited, 1 adult can't be in 2 places at once. My older one (8) struggles to swim in the teaching pool at our local pool because she's too tall but younger is out of depth in main pool so I tend to only go swimming with them separately or with 2 adults...

Would a holiday with all 3 be better for anyone than staying at home? So why go...

OP, I hope your mother sees how awful this situation is for you and supports you in leaving. In your shoes I'd use the holiday to mentally prepare yourself for exiting this marriage. Unless, of course, you want to be doing all the parenting and holidaying on your own in perpetuity.

Of course she would struggle on her own with three children compared to one. There is no way she wouldn't.

If he would go ahead and took the three children, she is effectively loosing any chance to have a holiday on her holiday, as she would turn into a childminder.

I find it strange that a woman needs to apologise using the correct key words for you to accept something isn't a good idea.

This shit happens because of male entitlement that any vagina is available for childcare.
Before the Easter holidays my friend told me her brother mentioned his ex wife was going on holidays with her new partner and he had is 6 year old daughter for a week.
He never asked for anything, just mentioned it.
He had done this before last year and she told him not to assume she was available for childcare.
She promptly booked a week away with her 14 year old daughter visiting her in-laws.
The sunday NIGHT BEFORE the first day of the week, he TEXTS her about dropping his daughter over early.
She was already on the road.
He couldn't believe it.
He was very rude to her and they haven't spoken since.
He has tried to talk to her after a few weeks but she is more than happy with the status quo and has told him so.
Her mother tried to mumble something to her, but she shut her down so sharply, her mother hasn't uttered another word.

She isn't his childcare and has no interest in being used by him and his wife. The school holidays are coming up and she knows he will try again. But her daughter is nearly 15 and she has zero interest in the restrictions of minding a child who is 6. Her brother is a selfish arse and thinks his big important job tops her little life.
She said she won't be one bit surprised to hear that he has recruited some poor sap to use.

Exactly. I’m wondering where these SC will be when OP and DC are on holiday and DH is at home. In the empty house? Given to another relative somewhere else? In a holiday camp, and if so, booked by whom? The dad has really let everyone down and the effects are rippling out.

There is a big difference between the type of holiday appropriate for a 4 year old and one for an 8 year old and a 10 year old and therefore would understand that if their Dad isn't going with them, then it isn't practical for the OP to take all three of them, even with her Mum along, because the Dad won't be there to take his Kids to do something different to the 4 year old sometimes.

Although, OP has already said she is asking her Mum to go with her and her own child and she could, if she wanted leave the 4 year old with her Mum and do something different with the older children herself. They do stay with OP and her DH 3 days a week. However, I can also understand her reluctance to do so, given that it was supposed to be a family holiday and will not be what she originally was expecting.

Her DH is a disgrace, completely get that too.

However, from the posts, both from the OP and some of the replies, I cannot understand why the DSC are seen as 'not my responsibility' and only the responsibility of the Birth Parent. So many people don't appear to give two hoots about the effect of these sort of things on the children involved. And I find that very, very sad. If you take on Step-children, because you love their other parent too, surely, you want to do the best you can for them too? In this particular scenario it appears that OP is determined to 'get back at her DH' - and it's the children who will suffer?

As I say, if it were for the reasons that I posted about above, I could understand, but this sounds like revenge on the DH, pure and simple.